Recently, I was preparing a 30-minute kickoff for a school district entering its second year of professional learning community (PLC) implementation. During the first year, teachers had discovered many of the benefits that come from having dedicated time to work with colleagues. They shared strategies and resources, problem-solved around student needs, developed greater consistency across classrooms, and built stronger professional relationships.

Those are important outcomes. But they raised another question for me: When does a professional working community become a professional learning community? Teachers can work together very effectively without necessarily learning together. A team can coordinate lessons, share materials, develop common assessments, discuss students, and solve immediate problems. All of that is valuable. But the L in PLC asks for something more of us. It’s why I stress the PLC question, “What do our students need us to learn?”            

Schools need both. The issue is whether time designated for professional learning moves beyond getting work done to generating new learning.

As I prepared for the district’s second year of PLC work, I developed a six-part framework to help teams move from identifying a student need or desired outcome to engaging in a collective inquiry process.

Goal — What change do we want to see in student success? This could be overall growth in a content area or growth for an identified group of students who are currently underperforming. In addition to content standards, the goal might focus on critical life skills such as collaboration, problem-solving, or critical thinking.

Student learning-production behaviors needed — What would students need to do differently to produce the desired outcome? Students cause student achievement. What students do as learners—thinking, practicing, questioning, persisting, collaborating, revising—produces their learning.

Hypothesis — What do we believe teachers might do differently that would increase the student behaviors needed to produce the desired outcome? The hypothesis connects changes in teacher actions to anticipated changes in student learning production behaviors.

Teacher moves — What specifically will we do differently to test our hypothesis? These are the instructional actions, strategies, prompts, structures, or responses that teachers will intentionally implement.

What might we look for? — What evidence would indicate that student learning behaviors are changing? These signs provide early indications of progress. If they aren’t appearing, we have reason to revisit our hypothesis and teacher moves rather than simply waiting for the eventual outcome.

What is the PLC learning? — What are we discovering about the relationship between our actions and students’ responses? What seems to be working, for whom, and under what conditions? How can we use that learning to determine what we try next?

Here is an example of how the framework might unfold around a goal of increasing students’ problem-solving attempts before requesting teacher help or giving up. Notice that the PLC doesn’t begin by deciding what teachers should do. It first identifies what students need to do differently and then builds a hypothesis about the teacher actions that might produce those behaviors.The hypothesis in this example isn’t a prescription or a promise that these teacher moves will produce the desired student behaviors. It is the PLC’s best thinking about where to begin. The learning comes from putting that thinking into action, observing students’ responses, and returning to the PLC with evidence. Perhaps students begin persisting longer but still turn quickly to the teacher rather than using peers or other resources. Perhaps the strategy works for some students but not others. Each finding gives the PLC something new to explore.

That’s why I see the framework as a cycle rather than a plan to be implemented:

Desired outcome → Student learning behaviors → Hypothesis → Teacher moves → Evidence → PLC learning → What do we try next?

Effective PLCs stay engaged in this cycle. They remain curious about what students are doing and how students are responding to changes in teacher practice. Both evidence of progress and evidence of a lack of progress inform what the PLC decides to do next. The learning gained from that inquiry can then be applied to future teaching and learning situations.

In strong schools, that PLC learning doesn’t remain within the team. It is shared across the school—and perhaps across the district—so that the learning of one group can benefit other colleagues and students.

A professional working community asks, “What are we going to do?” A professional learning community adds, “What are we learning from what we do?”

 

One of the shifts I have long encouraged teachers to make—especially in their PLCs—is to consider how much of their attention is focused on teaching and how much is focused on student learning. That’s not because teaching isn’t important. Teachers need strong instructional skills, thoughtful planning, engaging strategies, and deep content knowledge. But teaching is not the outcome. Learning is the outcome.

In the words of Rick DuFour, a leading voice in the development of professional learning communities, “The professional learning community model flows from the assumption that the core mission of formal education is not simply to ensure that students are taught but to ensure that they learn. This simple shift – from a focus on teaching to a focus on learning – has profound implications for schools.”  

A focus on learning changes the questions we ask.

When the focus is primarily on teaching, a teacher might ask: Did I explain it clearly? Did I use the strategy correctly? Did I cover what I planned? Did I provide enough practice?

When the focus shifts to learning, the questions change: What are students doing? What are they thinking? What are they understanding? Where are they struggling? What are they doing when they struggle? What evidence tells me learning is occurring?

That shift also requires giving up some control. I can control much of what I teach. I can’t directly control what students learn. Learning requires something from the learner. Students have to produce the behaviors that generate learning—thinking, questioning, practicing, persisting, making connections, seeking feedback, and revising their thinking. So effective teachers don’t simply deliver instruction. They create environments in which students increasingly take responsibility for producing their own learning.

I believe school leaders face a similar shift—from a focus on managing to a focus on leading.

That’s not because management isn’t important. Schools need schedules, procedures, budgets, policies, expectations, and clear responsibilities. Effective management creates the structure necessary for a school to function. But just as teaching is not the outcome of teaching, management is not the outcome of leadership.

The question is what our management makes possible. When leaders are primarily focused on managing, their questions may sound like: Are teachers following the agreed-upon procedures? Is the curriculum being implemented as planned? Are PLCs meeting regularly? Are teachers submitting their professional growth plans? Is everyone doing what we agreed they would do?

Those can be important questions. But they don’t necessarily tell us whether professional learning and change are occurring in ways that will impact student success.

A leadership focus raises different questions: What are teachers learning? What are they questioning? What are they discovering about their students? Where are they struggling? What are they trying? What evidence are they examining? How are their thinking and practice changing as a result?

There is an important parallel here. Just as students have to produce the behaviors that generate their learning, teachers have to produce the behaviors that generate professional learning. They need to question, examine evidence, test ideas, collaborate, seek feedback, reflect, and revise their thinking and practice in response to what they are learning.

Leaders can’t produce that learning for teachers any more than teachers can produce learning for students. What leaders can do is create the conditions that encourage and support it. And, just as with teaching, that can require giving up some control.

When we are uncertain about results, the temptation is often to manage more closely: provide more direction, specify the practice, monitor implementation, and check for compliance. Sometimes that may be necessary. But when the desired outcome requires professional judgment, learning, and change, increased management may actually reduce the very thinking we need teachers to do. In our effort to ensure improvement, we can unintentionally reduce the professional learning necessary to produce it.

While management can create clarity around what needs to happen, leadership creates the conditions in which people learn how best to make it happen. That distinction raises an important question for school leaders: When does a situation call for management, and when does it call for leadership?

Some aspects of schooling appropriately require compliance. There are times when a leader needs to provide clear direction about what must happen. Safety procedures need to be followed. Required assessments need to be administered according to established guidelines. Deadlines need to be met. Management is important here.

But many of the outcomes we seek in schools can’t be produced through compliance. Increasing student engagement, developing greater student independence, improving the quality of classroom discussion, responding to students who aren’t learning, or determining how best to implement a new curriculum all require teachers to observe, think, make judgments, experiment, and learn. Leadership is important here.

The more an outcome depends upon professional judgment, the less likely it is that management alone can produce it.

Consider the parallel. Teachers need classroom management and strong teaching skills to create environments where students can learn. School leaders need strong management skills to create the conditions in which they can lead professional learning. In both cases, learning requires more than what the teacher or leader does. It requires giving learners the opportunity and responsibility to think, question, experiment, reflect, and make decisions.

Quality teaching builds student learning environments. Quality leadership builds professional learning environments.

The more an outcome depends upon professional judgment, the less likely it is that management alone can produce it.

There is a parallel worth considering. Teachers need classroom management and strong teaching skills to create environments where students can learn. School leaders need strong management skills to create the conditions in which they can lead professional learning.

In both cases, management and skill create important conditions. But learning requires more. It requires giving learners the opportunity and responsibility to think, question, experiment, reflect, and make decisions.

Quality teaching builds student learning environments. Quality leadership builds professional learning environments.

“We do not learn from experience… we learn from reflecting on experience.” Whether or not Dewey wrote those exact words in that exact form is debated, but the concept runs throughout his work.

• Experience alone does not guarantee learning.
• Reflection turns experience into learning.
• Inquiry begins when we encounter uncertainty.

This diagram from the Great Pedagogical Thinkers website illustrates where reflection fits in our learning and understanding.

If reflection is what transforms experience into learning, then generating reflection becomes one of the most important functions of coaching. The value of a coach is not found primarily in providing answers or solutions. It is found in creating opportunities for teachers to think more deeply about their planning, their instructional decisions, and their students’ learning. Reflection matters because it influences decisions. Those decisions shape student learning behaviors, and student learning behaviors ultimately produce student learning.

Years back, when training mentors who supported first year teachers, I focused on their role of generating reflection. I suggested that the old saying, “Experience is the best teacher” was wrong. I promoted, “Experience with a mentor was the best teacher.” Experience is critical as identified as #1 in the diagram. A quality mentor magnifies the learning outcome from the experience by supporting reflection. The mentor assists in identifying evidence, data, or indicators and then often prompts with questions that support the mentee’s reflection on the experience. Reflection will occur without a mentor or coach. However, learning is often accelerated when another observer notices evidence, patterns, or possibilities that the mentee might otherwise miss.

Donald Schön (The Reflective Practitioner) used the term reflective practitioner to describe professionals who think critically about their actions while performing them—“reflection-in-action”—and afterwards—“reflection-on-action.” This approach encourages continuous learning from experience, particularly in fields where uncertainty and complexity defy rigid technical solutions. Schön’s description of fields where uncertainty and complexity defy rigid technical solutions captures the essence of teaching. It describes why I label teaching as a profession…… a field that requires continuous learning and experimentation.

With reflection-in-action, while teaching is taking place, a teacher observes student responses, notices confusion or engagement, interprets evidence, and makes adjustments in the moment. Reflecting while acting. Reflection-on-action occurs after the lesson, when a teacher looks back to analyze what happened, why it happened, and what they learned from the experience.

While Schön described reflection-in-action and reflection-on-action, coaching often reveals a third form of reflection: reflection-before-action. This occurs during planning as teachers anticipate student responses, consider evidence they will gather, and draw on previous learning to shape upcoming instruction. That reflection may draw on experiences with current students as well as previous groups of learners.

Coaching often occurs in a sequence of a pre-observation conference, observation, and a post observation conference. In the ideal coaching process, the post conference becomes a pre-conference setting the stage for applying discoveries, insights, and possibilities into ongoing teacher learning.

When training for coaching skills, I stress that a quality pre-conference is the most important component. It establishes reflection that can extend throughout the coaching process. It is quite common that during a pre-conference, as a teacher is sharing a description of the learning activity that the coach will observe, they make a decision to modify the plan in some way. The modification is not based on anything the coach suggested. It emerges as the teacher has the opportunity to reflect on the planning previously done. (Reflection-before-action)

Reflection matters because it influences decisions. Those decisions shape student learning behaviors, and student learning behaviors ultimately produce student learning.

The teacher carries the reflection generated during the pre-conference into the learning activity with students. That heightens the teacher’s observation and reflection during instruction. If the teacher focused the coach on observing a specific element such as her questions or students conversations in small groups, the teacher is likely “extra aware” of those elements. That awareness may lead to the teacher modifying her actions in the moment. (Reflection-in action) Those teacher observations will extend into the post conference. (Reflection-after-action)

The post conference (Reflection-on-action) should create opportunities for teachers to build upon the reflections generated during the pre-conference and the lesson itself. Teacher reflection in the post conference requires teacher talk. Coaches should avoid a “report of observation data” and focus on how their observation can support the teacher’s thinking. I describe the post conference as a conversation where at least 50% of the talk should be the teacher’s voice. Reflection requires thinking, and thinking often becomes visible through talking. When teachers have opportunities to analyze evidence, explain decisions, and explore possibilities aloud, their learning deepens. A goal of getting to 75% teacher voice in the post-conference can increase teacher reflection and learning.

Effective coaching is not a single conversation. It is a continuous cycle of reflection that helps teachers learn before instruction, while instruction is occurring, and after instruction is complete. Effective coaches can extend teacher reflection and learning beyond the more formal coaching conferences with brief classroom visits sharing observations or questions that encourage teachers to share insights or questions. Continuing the conversation extends the reflection and learning for teachers and their students.

Dewey’s insight remains powerful. Experience alone does not create learning. Teachers design hundreds of learning activities each year, but experience only becomes learning when reflection occurs. The real work of coaching is generating that reflection—before instruction, during instruction, and after instruction. When coaching creates reflection, experience becomes learning. When teachers learn, students benefit.

Many educators know that some of the best, most relevant professional development can happen when teachers observe other teachers instructing their students. But in many schools, there’s rarely time set aside for peer observation. Erika Kersey, the principal of Greenville Elementary School in Virginia and two teachers share how they created structured, low-stakes opportunities for teachers to learn from each other.

Read Erika’s Edutopia article, “How to Create a Thriving Drop-In Culture” here.

Email Erika: ekersey@fcps1.org

Subscribe to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast on iTunes or visit BarkleyPD.com to find new episodes!

Podcast Transcript:

[00:00:00.300] – Steve [Intro]
Hello and welcome to Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud. Together, we’ll explore ways to support teacher growth, elevate your coaching practice, and boost student success. Each week, I’ll share my own insights as well as conversations with inspiring guests to help you lead with confidence. Thanks for listening.

[00:00:30.000] – Steve
Creating a culture of open classroom doors and informal collegial feedback. Joining our podcast today are educators from the Greenville Elementary School in Virginia. I reached out to Principal Erika Kersey when I read about the school’s focus on building a culture of teachers’ collegial classroom visits. I was anxious to learn more about the steps taken to build this culture. Principal Kersey is an EDD candidate at the University of Virginia where she studies how relational trust, teacher evaluation, and personalized professional learning can strengthen teaching and learning. Erika has invited two staff members to join our conversation, and I’m looking forward to learning more about all of their experiences. Thank you, Erika, and welcome.

[00:01:21.740] – Erika
Thank you for having us. We’re excited to discuss what we’ve been doing here at Greenville.

[00:01:26.780] – Steve
Terrific. Would you take a moment and introduce us to the two colleagues who are joining you?

[00:01:32.720] – Erika
Sure. I have Amanda Steiner. She teaches second grade, and she’s been teaching for 14 years. I have Amber Hodges, and she is a first-year teacher at Greenville.

[00:01:44.520] – Steve
Terrific. By the way, Amber and Amanda, I did have five years in first grade as a first-grade teacher. I preceded that with five years teaching grades five and six as a combination.

[00:02:02.200] – Amanda
You went on the same line as me.

[00:02:04.600] – Amanda
I did fifth grade for many years, and then second for the last five.

[00:02:09.780] – Steve
It was cool. The gal that tutored me and mentored me – when I left, she went on to teach fifth and sixth after a whole lot of years in the primary grades. I always thought I would have loved to watch her deal with that because she got to watch me deal with making the switch the other way. Well, followers to this podcast know that my career long focus has been on teachers learning from and with their colleagues. I’m wondering, Erika, what focused you on building that culture at the school?

[00:02:47.000] – Erika
Well, one thing that I have learned all the time I’ve been teaching is the best learning is going to be from the people that are right with you, right in your own school. And when I came to Greenville as assistant principal, I just saw a powerhouse of teachers. And we had such talent within our building that I wanted to tap into that. I wanted to create really intentional ways for the teachers to learn from each other right here in the building. There’s often just not enough time to do the type of professional learning that people want to do. And I could see a hunger for the learning that people wanted to engage in. So it really stemmed from wanting them to be able to see the incredible things each other were doing and really lean into that within the school.

[00:03:41.000] – Steve
I’m going to push you a little further, Erika. As I read through the article that introduced me to what was happening at your school, two of the first suggestions that you laid out were the need to put a strong foundation in when you kick the program off. And then also you described the importance to build in for leeway. I’m wondering if you’d talk about how you approach those two things.

[00:04:08.020] – Erika
Sure. Well, in the beginning, we worked directly with our Office of Professional Learning. So our Supervisor for Mentorship and New Teachers, developed this new pathway of learning walks. We had worked closely previously because I was the supervisor for Professional Learning for our division prior to coming to building leadership. And it was something that we had wanted to get going in our division. So I was really excited when she was able to really do a jumpstart, and I welcomed it into our school. So when we first began, we partnered with her, and there was some formality involved as far as observation forms and having an intentional path and reason to be going into classrooms. And I think that that was a very a good way to begin something like this, because I think that it can be intimidating to just all of a sudden start popping into people’s classrooms. I think we need to start with a lot of intention and some rationale on why we need to start this and how it can be helpful. So we began with giving teachers a reflection form that had specific areas that we were looking for them to focus on that tied to our school improvement plan.

[00:05:32.940] – Erika
And then they completed a short reflection after their learning walk. And we also met as grade level teams to review how things went during the first push of learning walks to get feedback. And that was really eye-opening, I think, for myself and for our supervisor for mentorship and new teachers and for the staff itself. And then as time went on, this is our third year of doing learning walks. Once there was more trust established between the teachers and also within the division that when we’re doing learning walks, teachers really have an understanding of what the purpose is, and there isn’t quite as much of a need for formality of an observation form and a lot of paperwork to prove that the time was well spent. We’ve just kind of moved into more of a more informal strategy. Really, all we’re asking teachers to do at this point is to complete just a positive visit form for the teachers that they observe.

[00:06:44.700] – Steve
Amanda, you were there from the get-go?

[00:06:49.900] – Amanda
Yes.

[00:06:51.000] – Steve
Could you talk a little bit about the staff’s initial reaction, response, engagement, and then how you saw that change?

[00:07:00.000] – Amanda
I would say from the initial part, even as a veteran teacher, it was still, like she mentioned, a little bit nerve-wracking. You want me to walk into somebody else’s classroom and observe them and provide them with feedback? Because you just don’t typically see that happening. But I also have a drive to want to learn new skills and strategy. So I was immediately on board with signing up for popping into classrooms and completing the form and getting the professional development. But I do like the more relaxed feel now that we have worked our way towards. For instance, where you just got new line boards, which are the digital boards in our classroom. And second grade was one of the grades that started with rolling them out. And so I’ve had a couple of months with using them since the start of the school year. And just last week, fourth grade teachers popped into my room because they just now are getting them. And we’re like, “Can we see you in action? Can we see you using them?” And that kind of thing. I’m like, “Yeah, come on in.” It was just on a spur of a moment thing.

[00:08:04.700] – Amanda
I love that flexibility of just popping in whenever you need something or want to see something or that thing.

[00:08:12.740] – Steve
Amber, what’s it like entering a school where this culture is in place?

[00:08:21.640] – Amber
I love it. I previously had experiences in other schools that did not have that. When I really started working here and the culture that has already been created here, it makes me not want to leave ever. It’s such a form of community. It feels like a family here. Everybody is on board with supporting everybody and encouraging everybody. It’s a lot of back and forth of just building a relationship and communicating with each other and learning from each other and growing with each other. I love it.

[00:09:02.040] – Steve
You may be looking at a career similar to mine. I entered teaching in that environment. I was in an experimental program, and a student taught my entire senior year at University University in a room with two student teachers, a graduate assistant and a master teacher. Then when I taught grades five and six, I taught on a team. Then after five years, then I went to switch to teach first, I taught on a team. It ended up that I’ve built my whole career around making those opportunities happen for a teacher. I frequently write that teaching is a team sport and therefore needs to be a public act. So that open door piece is just extremely important. Erika, in the article that I read, you also talked about providing coverage and PD credit as folks work in the program. I’m always looking for things that administration can do to encourage this culture. And certainly at the start, it sounds like coverage and PD credit help. You want to talk a little bit about how you did that?

[00:10:17.640] – Erika
Sure. We really thought about that right from the beginning because we knew that if we didn’t want to add just one more thing for people to have to figure out how to manage and navigate on their own. So from the beginning, we offered professional development credit, which I think is extremely important. And any teacher going into classrooms, even if this isn’t a structure that’s in place in your school, I would highly recommend advocating for yourself on why you should be earning credit for observing another peer. But we put into place at a division level, teachers get one hour of professional learning per learning walk. So, of course, learning are not an hour long, but we want to value the time that surrounds the learning walk as well. So you have 15 minutes, is generally the time that we suggest people go in. Of course, they can decide if they want to do longer than that. It really is up to the individual teacher. But 15 minutes gives you a good capture about what’s going on. And I think people can wrap their mind around that amount of time a little bit better than, oh, my gosh, I need to go to a full lesson.

[00:11:29.160] – Erika
And that 15 minute time frame really came from the experience that I had supervising student teachers. I did that for the University of Virginia for a few years, and I found that just within a 20 to 25 minute time frame, I really could see what I needed in a lesson. And so 15 minutes made sense for something a little bit more informal than a formal observation. And teachers are discussing what they see. So even though it may not be written formally or something that is turned in, they certainly are spending time speaking with the teacher. It may be a hallway conversation or in the lounge, but it’s happening. I love hearing it. Sometimes over here when I’m walking through, we’re walking in the hallway. So we know that that is happening. But I’ll preface that with the first round, we did have our teachers complete a Google form that was a reflection. So there was more formality in the beginning to ensure that all of this was really happening, and also just to give people a framework for the future. And at the division level, any teacher can do a learning walk in our school division.

[00:12:43.960] – Erika
That form, that Google form, is in our professional learning catalog. So even if a school isn’t doing a big push, individual teachers can certainly take advantage of that. And then for coverage, there’s a couple of options. So teachers can, of course, use their planning time if they want to go see a teacher in another grade level. But if they want to see their own team, that would be impossible. So one of the things that I really committed to and love to do is cover teachers. So I use Outlook like many people do and there’s a nice little Book with Me feature. And I put that link out for our staff so they can see my availability. And it makes things very smooth. They can just sign up, block my calendar for a short amount of time. And I go in, cover for them, and they can go to their learning walk. And generally, it happens. School is all about flexibility, so every once in a while, I can’t make it. But let’s say 95% of the time, I can make that work. And that’s been a huge learning opportunity for myself as well.

[00:13:48.360] – Steve
Yeah. I find that you get to have a conversation with the teacher whose class you covered somewhere down the road in different ways because of that opportunity. You got to experience something that you wouldn’t experience if you were just in that teacher’s classroom observing that teacher.

[00:14:06.340] – Erika
Correct. It’s such a richer experience for me to get to know the classrooms, the classroom culture, the students, and also to have real tangible experience with the curriculum. I was an elementary teacher here in this county for nine years, and I have really recently gone into leadership. So some of the curriculum I did actually teach with. However, curriculum is always changing and methods are always changing. And it’s been really good for me to get in and actually teach myself and try to use the new technology. I’m definitely not perfect at any of it. And often, the teachers just laugh because they leave things for me and I don’t finish it. But I do the best I can, and I think it helps build trust between the teachers and myself as well.

[00:14:57.640] – Steve
Amber and Amanda, I’m wondering if you got an example that you’d like to share, either that came out of you getting a chance to observe a colleague or came out of a colleague observing you.

[00:15:13.800] – Amanda
I can start. So my goal for this school year is to improve my writing within my classroom, the second grade level. And with chatting with Ms. Kirstie, she suggested that I go observe a fourth grade teacher. I just coordinated a time that she was doing a particular writing strategy. I got to observe it firsthand, and then that opened the door for me to see how can I approach that in a different way and tweak it a little bit so that it better fits my second grade students. But then it also even opened the door even further to the fact that she noticed that fourth grade was struggling with just the writing stamina. And so that led to a group discussion with my team on, “Okay, guys, maybe we need to look at integrating writing building that stamina a little bit more throughout our curriculum in our day.” It just creates a snowball effect of conversations and making improvements and that thing.

[00:16:10.760] – Steve
Cool. I’ll give you one of my ideas that I frequently toss out for folks, and that is to get those cross-grade level observations in early in the year and late in the year. When a a first-grade teacher gets to observe kindergarten kids at the beginning of the year, you have a different picture of how far kids came when you get them the next year. And then especially being able to see students you had last year in the next level classroom. There’s a lot of conversations can grow out of that.

[00:16:56.920] – Erika
I’ll say when we were debriefing after our first session of learning walks, I had the teachers fill out just a little reflection on what their initial… Give me one word or phrase. And quite a few people said they just loved seeing their former students, too.

[00:17:14.100] – Steve
That’s powerful.

[00:17:15.000] – Erika
See how far they’ve gone and what they’re doing now. That was just another element that I didn’t…I should have anticipated, but I didn’t. And thought, oh, yeah, it is fun to see how they’ve grown.

[00:17:29.000] – Steve
I’ve had teachers who are, especially in the earlier part of the year, maybe struggling with a student and feeling discouraged by the progress that’s not being made, only to get input from last year’s teacher about how much progress is being made. That can be really reinforcing to a teacher who’s only seeing where the child seems not to be up to grade level, but that teacher who worked with the child last year is now recognizing realizing the growth that the student has made. Amber, you have one that you want to share?

[00:18:05.860] – Amber
Sure. Speaking of the cross-grade level, I specifically went into my learning walks wanting to see second grade, and I actually went into Amanda’s classroom to get a good idea of where do my first grade students need to be by the end of the year? What are the expectations for them next year going into second grade, those with independencies, with writing, all those things, I wanted a better picture of where they should be, and especially being a first year teacher, not really knowing that coming in. So I was able to observe Amanda and then from that, I even went back to her and we had a really good conversation of, what do you do for your kids on writing and how much support are you still having to give them? And at what point am I transitioning my students from doing a lot of our stuff altogether and when they should start being able to do things independently on their own. But I also want to say as a first year teacher, being able to observe other teachers is so important. I’ve learned so much from being able to be in other teachers’ classrooms. That has helped me already start out as a first-year teacher that I wouldn’t have had unless I was in there observing other teachers.

[00:19:31.610] – Amber
I really like it.

[00:19:34.760] – Steve
Part of my work with Teachers Learning from Teachers, I talk about the difference between what I label as peer observation and peer coaching, both of which are really valuable learning opportunities. Peer observation, to me, sounds closest to matching the description of what you folks are doing, where the person who’s doing the observing is the key learner. In both cases you describe, you’re going because there’s something specific you want to look at, you want to reflect on it, and look at how it impacts your teaching. In peer coaching, it’s a teacher colleague going into another colleague’s classroom, but now you’re going in because of the learning that the teacher who’s invited you into their classroom wants to do. With peer coaching, there generally needs to be a pre-observation conversation because I’m asking you to come into my classroom, observe something particular, and give me feedback on what it is that you’re seeing I’m doing. So it could be, we took that example, Amber, of I’m wondering how much independence the kids should have. I’d like an experienced college colleague who’s working with students in the next grade level to come in, observe my kids, and give me some feedback on what they see as how it’s the same or different.

[00:21:08.440] – Steve
I’m wondering if with the work you’ve been doing with peer observation, if either informally, some people might be at that point where they’re looking at crossing it over to peer coaching and in effect, inviting somebody into your classroom because there’s something particular you’d like them to observe and give you feedback on.

[00:21:31.300] – Erika
I would say we are definitely getting to that point just because of the conversations that are happening where people are feeling more comfortable sharing what they are looking to improve upon. And when people start to frequent each other’s classroom, so if you end up going into somebody’s classroom more than one or two times, that is going to really elicit that relationship. But then people start feeling more comfortable like, “Hey, now why don’t you come in and see how I’m doing? And I can see that morphing with what Amanda was doing with fourth grade because…

[00:22:06.950] – Steve
Yeah, that’s what I thought.

[00:22:08.600] – Erika
Both back and forth because the fourth grade teacher, her goal is also to improve writing. So they’re both working on the same goals and having them go back and forth to flip the narrative a little bit and give advice could definitely start happening. Another organic thread that happened with this program was when I was discussing what we were doing with another principal, there was interest in, can we send some teachers to your school? And can some of your teachers come to our school? So last year we had a visit from a third grade team at another school who were looking to improve on instruction and science.

[00:22:52.360] – Erika
And they came out for a few hours to observe our third grade teachers here and some of our fourth and fifth grade teachers, too, to see the vertical alignment because in Virginia, our science SOL’s or end of the year exam is cumulative three through five. So that was a little pebble drop in starting that. And then this year, another principal friend of mine, we worked out that she had two brand new teachers in her fifth grade, and she only has two teachers in fifth grade, so it was tough to have a brand new team. And they came out and spent a day with us here. Then the coaching piece flipped because two of our teachers who they observed spent the day with them. And there was some intentionality around what those teachers were specifically looking for. They were looking for classroom management or how am I structuring my literacy time? And so those teachers were able to go in their classrooms and support them individually during that exchange. And we’re hoping that we do a couple more of those in the second half of the year with those same teachers. But that has really just naturally turned into a coaching situation.

[00:24:06.860] – Erika
It wasn’t intended at first to be that, but it was a wonderful aftermath of just coming to see. And then it’s like, oh, now I’m thinking of all these other things. And our teachers didn’t expect to be in a coaching role, and we’re a little bit intimidated, honestly, at first, even though they were veterans and extremely good at their craft. Once they got in there in the new teachers classrooms, it’s just so natural. You just know what needs to be done and the advice that you should be giving and has sparked an interest for one of them in particular on coaching. So you just never know where something like this is going to lead.

[00:24:47.380] – Steve
Two key words that are probably naturally growing out of what you’re doing there are vulnerability and trust, and they go together. As one teacher makes herself vulnerable, it causes trust to grow. And then as trust grows, more people make themselves more vulnerable.

[00:25:09.540] – Erika
Absolutely. I see the psychological safety growing in our teams all the time from this type of work. And that’s where these conversations develop, because if people don’t feel safe having conversations about where they want to grow, the learning walk just doesn’t produce the same effects. So it’s a really nice way to build that in schools. In my experience, I can’t really think of another way to build, like you were saying, the trust and the psychological safety, then peer observation, then getting into classrooms. But you do have to have trust to start it. Just to get off the ground, you do need a lot of encouragement and trust. It’s okay that if only a few people begin it. And that’s one thing that I said to the staff in the beginning. I mean, obviously, I was highly encouraging it and wanted everyone to do it. But the reality is everyone isn’t going to feel comfortable right away. And so it’s okay if there’s an initial group that jumps on board, because once the teachers who are a little bit shy about it see the benefits, then they’ll start to…Everyone has their teaching buddy.

[00:26:29.660] – Erika
Everyone has at least one person that they feel safe with. It doesn’t matter what they teach, just go in and see. Then that snowballs into more.

[00:26:40.430] – Steve
I worked with an administrator who labeled it as invitation to expectation.

[00:26:45.260] – Erika
That’s a nice way to phrase it.

[00:26:47.040] – Steve
Start the program, invitational, and then it grows to a certain point where if you’re new coming into the school and everybody’s doing it, it’s expectation without it being a rule. I want to give a last chance here thinking about teachers or administrators for whom this is new, their first venture in. Thoughts that any of you have as important things for them to be thinking about if they’re considering giving it a trial at their school?

[00:27:24.860] – Amanda
I would say just go for it. I like how Ms. Kersey set it initially with, this week is learning walk week. Try to pop into one classroom throughout that week period of time. And now we’ve opened the door to a little bit more of, yes, we still have our goal weeks. But if I want to see another teacher, not during that time, I feel comfortable enough to approach them and say, “Hey, do you mind if I pop in and observe this lesson or what have you?”

[00:27:58.040] – Erika
Yeah, I think that that… I mean, my advice is you do need intentionality. It is really important. So while I would love to say, “Oh, it’s just people just do this all the time and don’t have to encourage it,” we do have to be intentional and encourage the teacher. So when we started, we did two big pushes in a year. So we had two weeks of learning walks in the fall and two in the spring. Now, it’s gone into this year my strategy, because like I said, with intentionality, there’s some strategic region planning involved. And I’m doing one week at a time, periodically. So I mapped out the year of when I felt like it would be good weeks. I tried to avoid weeks where we had our instructional impact team meetings, which are our PLCs, just to try to mitigate any issues that might happen. And those weeks, I’ll remind people. Turning Walk Week, it’s on our calendar. I send out my booking link. So we do have those periodically. And I think that’s good, too, because you get wrapped up in all the things. You mean to do it, and then you’re like, “Oh, I wanted to, but I didn’t get a chance the last time, so I definitely going to do it this time.”

[00:29:15.640] – Erika
Or it just prompts people’s thought process that maybe they can’t this week, but they know that it’s fine to do it after the fact. It doesn’t have to be during that week. But it keeps the momentum going.

[00:29:28.480] – Steve
Terrific. Terrific. Well, folks, thanks so much for joining me. Erika, are you okay if I put your school email into the podcast – if people have questions, they could contact you there?

[00:29:42.940] – Erika
Sure.

[00:29:43.740] – Steve
Alright. Well, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

[00:29:47.390] – Erika
You’re welcome. Thank you for inviting us.

[00:29:48.430] – Steve
Yeah. Have a good end of the year and a good start of this next one.

[00:29:51.260] – Erika
Thank you.

[00:29:51.860] – Steve
Take care. Bye-bye.

[00:29:52.860] – Erika
Bye.

[00:29:54.840] – Steve [Outro]
Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear what you’re pondering. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn at Steve Barkley, or send me your questions and find my videos and blogs at barkleypd.com.

Here is a slide that I frequently display at the start of facilitating a learning opportunity for school leaders, instructional coaches, and teachers. I personalize the statement with a look at myself. “There is no mountaintop in learning mastery as an educator. One needs not worry about reaching mastery prior to retirement. Having passed the “retirement opportunity age,” I have too much to learn to retire.

Michael Nelson & Peter DeWitt in an Education Week Opinion Piece, “Calling Yourself a ‘Lead Learner’ Doesn’t Make It So : The illusion of mastery can have unintended consequences,” provided additional insights for my continued learning.  They pointed out that the term “lead learner,” often used by school leaders in describing their role might suggest that the leader learns something and then teaches others. That might miss the image of leaders learning from those they are leading.

That thought connects with a suggestion I’ve provided when asked, “What should we look for in interviewing candidates for instructional coaching roles?” My response is that one thing to look for is excitement about what they will be able to learn as they engage with teachers in coaching conversations. Jim Knight’s partnership approach to coaching provides a foundation for seeing instructional coaches and teachers as co-learners engaged in a shared inquiry process. Rather than positioning the coach as the expert who delivers answers, the partnership model emphasizes equality, choice, dialogue, reflection, and reciprocity. In this stance, coaches enter classrooms with curiosity, seeking to understand a teacher’s goals, beliefs, and context, and then collaborating to explore strategies that might support the desired student outcomes. Both coach and teacher contribute knowledge, co-constructing ideas, trying them, gathering evidence, and refining practice together.

Nelson and Witt introduced me to the Japanese term Shoshin, often translated as “beginner’s mind.”  It is a concept in Zen Buddhism that describes approaching any task, relationship, or problem with the openness, curiosity, and humility of a true beginner, even when one is experienced. Expertise is not abandoned, but it is held lightly. The goal is to see situations freshly, without assumptions, preconceptions, or the defensiveness that can come with expertise. The beginner’s mindset expands learning because it keeps us receptive to new insights and willing to explore rather than protect what we already know.

“In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities; in the expert’s mind there are few.”

(Zen Teacher, Shunryu Suzuki)

These elements of Shoshin create an environment for a learners mindset.

• Openness: A willingness to consider unfamiliar ideas and perspectives.
• Curiosity: A stance of wondering, questioning, and exploring rather than judging.
• Humility: An understanding that no matter how much we know, we are always learners.
• Presence: Attending fully to the moment, which allows for deeper noticing and insight.
• Non-attachment: Letting go of fixed outcomes or proving oneself “right.”

As I look at this list, I think about how often coaches talk about the enjoyment they find working with beginning teachers who are often so “open” to engaging with the coach. As coaches, we need to model those same beginner behaviors which have us enter conversations without assumptions as to what the teacher should do, asking authentic rather than leading questions. By modelling intellectual humility and continuous learning, coaches create psychological safety, so teachers are more willing to experiment.

“There’s comfort in being good at your job. It builds trust, credibility, and often, influence. But comfort can dull our curiosity and limit our growth.”

(Nelson and Witt)

A Shoshin approach can also play a powerful role in the work of Professional Learning Communities. That mindset helps teams stay open, curious, and growth oriented as they examine student learning and shape instructional approaches. In a PLC operating with a beginner’s mind, members approach data, student work, and each other’s perspectives without defensiveness or preconceived explanations. Instead of assuming they already know why students performed a certain way or which strategy will work best, they enter conversations with curiosity: What might we be missing? What else could be true? What new possibilities haven’t we explored? That mindset encourages deeper listening, more authentic collaboration, and a willingness to test ideas through collective inquiry rather than relying on past practice. Shoshin reduces ego and expertise-protection that can hinder a team’s learning. Instead, PLC members model humility and openness by wondering aloud, experimenting, and learning from colleagues. Shoshin can support PLCs being dynamic learning communities where continuous discovery drives better outcomes for students.

 

Matt Renwick recently posted a blog on MiddleWeb titled, “Observing Instruction with a Curiosity Mindset.” Matt is the author of Lead Like a C.O.A.C.H. and has previously joined me on a podcast. He identifies these keys to leading like a coach:

Create confidence through trust.

Organize around a priority.

Affirm promising practices.

Communicate feedback.

Help teachers become leaders.

In our podcast, Matt shared: “You can’t just put out some kind of a goal and offer some professional development and monitor progress and then expect outcomes. School change and improvement is not linear in that sense as we might put it on paper. I realized as a principal, I couldn’t do this job without the teacher’s input and understanding their decision making. I needed to stop observing and judging. Not that there’s not a place for that as a part of being a supervisor, but it really has become a fraction of how I spend my days now. I’m now coming in daily, just learning, just coming in with kind of getting rid of my biases as much as I can and trying not to make assumptions and just coming in and noticing what’s going on, trying to notice what’s going well, communicating that with the teachers and eventually leading into conversations around their instruction, which is where the impact happens, it’s learning together.”

“The question isn’t whether we should observe instruction. It’s whether we can observe it with curiosity rather than judgment – as learners alongside our teachers rather than as evaluators standing apart from them.”

(Matt Renwick)

Renwick points out the following from Halverson and Kelley in “Mapping Leadership: The Tasks that Matter for Improving Teaching and Learning in Schools:”

“If leaders can take the stance as a learner in the classroom, they can observe how the lesson unfolds to students. This stance requires leaders to refrain from judgment about the quality of the lesson in order to notice questions raised by teacher and student interactions.”

Renwick suggests two key focus points for leaders in observing classrooms and providing feedback.

• Refraining from judgement
• Sharing observations from the students perspective

I agree with Renwick’s term “curiosity mindset.” I have suggested to new coaches that if they allow their curiosity to emerge as they pre-conference with a teacher, it will guide their questioning and listening. My curiosity emerges when I ask the teacher to describe “What are the most important things student need to do during the learning activity that will impact the learning outcomes? (student learning production behaviors) and “What are you seeing as your important actions that will generate those student behaviors?” Those discussions provide me with insights into the teachers mindset about teaching and learning.

I can now observe students during the learning activity and the degree to which they engage in the desired behaviors. I can also consider how the teacher’s actions impacted that student engagement. As I enter a post conference I can listen with curiosity to the teacher’s observations and insights. My specific data observations about what I saw and heard from students add to the teacher’s reflection. If my curiosity engages the teacher’s curiosity– we are both positioned for learning.

When our curiosity is triggered, we think more deeply and rationally about decisions and come up with more-creative solutions. In addition, curiosity allows leaders to gain more respect from their followers and inspires employees to develop more-trusting and more-collaborative relationships with colleagues.

(Harvard Business Review)

I recently listened to a podcast that Jim Knight recorded with John Campbell and Chris Munro around their book, “Growth Talk : A Coaching Way of Thinking.” As they discussed key elements of ‘growth coaching’ as having the coachee think deeper, identify purpose, and monitor progress I reflected on how my curiosity mindset drives those discussions. They labeled key coaching skills such as questioning, listening, paraphrasing, summarizing, and noticing. As I listened to their conversation, I was reinforced that curiosity – a desired to understand and learn – provides a focus for coaching skills. I am now curious about my work with coaches who are learning coaching skills. I am wondering if exploring a curiosity mindset deeper would strengthen their learning and application of coaching skills.

By choosing curiosity, we build trust, honor teachers’ professionalism, open possibilities for student voice and agency, and create a coaching culture of collective learning.