Josh Ecker and Erin Cummings, from the Ed Tech and Learning Design Team at Chester County Intermediate Unit in Pennsylvania, explore AI’s current and future potential for the personalization of students pathways to success. They explore ways that school leaders and instructional coaches support teachers’ AI learning through PD, modeling, and policy.  Student AI Literacy is all discussed.

Visit Chester County’s AI Support site here.

Email Josh Ecker: joshe@cciu.org

Email Erin Cummings: erinc@cciu.org

Subscribe to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast on iTunes or visit BarkleyPD.com to find new episodes!

Podcast Transcript:

[00:00:00.300] – Steve [Intro]

Welcome to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast. As instructional coaches and school leaders, you are tasked with guiding continuous teacher growth to create student success. This podcast looks to support you with strategies from experienced guests, as well as my own insights that I’ve gathered over the years. I’m thrilled to have you with us. Thanks for tuning in.

[00:00:29.890] – Steve

AI for Student-centered Learning: Customizing Learning Pathways for Every Student. To gain some more insights into the ways that AI can help teachers and students, I asked members of the Ed Tech and Learning Design Team at Chester County Intermediate Unit in Pennsylvania to return to our podcast. Joining us today are Dr. Josh Ecker, Learning Design Coordinator, and Erin Cummings, Learning Innovation Specialist and gifted liaison. Welcome, Erin and Josh.

[00:01:05.420] – Erin

Thank you for having us.

[00:01:06.990] – Josh

Yeah.

[00:01:07.820] – Steve

Yeah, great. I knew when we were together last time, we’d return, and I’m excited about it. Josh, I looked back – it was almost a year ago that you were on that podcast with me. I’m wondering if you might share some of the changes that you see occurring with school’s use of AI over that time.

[00:01:32.180] – Josh

Yeah. So a year in AI is an eon in most other fields or topics. So a lot can happen in a year, but there’s two levels to it. There’s the one level of the technological advancements and new tools coming out, which is moving at such a fast pace. Implementation in schools is more steady, which is probably a good thing. But we’re definitely seeing progress and some changes there. There are, I would say, two recent focus areas or developments that we’ve been seeing. One is the drafting and sometimes the implementation of policy around AI sometimes built into a school or district’s acceptable use policy, sometimes as a standalone policy, and then connecting that with guidelines for student use, because often policy will be really top level, and then there needs to be additional guidelines. So teachers and students understand what appropriate and effective use looks like in classrooms. So that’s one thing we’ve been seeing. Another is that many districts are starting to review and even pilot some AI tools for teachers, so different tools they can use for planning. And then some also not as common, but some also on the instructional side of things.

[00:02:55.420] – Josh

So putting AI tools directly in the hands of students and giving them access to test it out and experiment and see how they can use AI to improve their learning.

[00:03:05.970] – Steve

So you hit on a question that I was pondering because I know when we spoke last time, we talked quite a bit about the importance of policy. And I was wondering with the presence of AI everywhere, if that policy issue changes from where it was a year ago? I’m almost seeing now that it can’t be avoided.

[00:03:35.270] – Josh

Yeah. I mean, I don’t think it’s realistic to have a policy that says we’re not using AI. It’s more about how to use it effectively and appropriately. And that might be different depending on the context or the specific task that a student or teacher or really anyone is working on. I think what’s another aspect of what’s changed in the past year with policy, specifically, is that we’re seeing more and more guidance on the state level, depending on the state. We’re seeing more guidance there. We’ve gotten recently in Pennsylvania policy guidance from the Pennsylvania State Bar Association. So we have some templated policies that districts can then apply in their own settings. So there’s been progress there. But really, every policy has to have a variety of considerations in terms of use cases, not just we don’t use it, because like you said, it’s everywhere, and there’s really no avoiding it.

[00:04:38.970] – Steve

Erin, I wondered if you’d start us with a look at how AI can the increasing differentiation that the teachers are working with?

[00:04:51.940] – Erin

Yeah, absolutely. I find that depending upon the tool, AI has been able to help our teachers provide those more concrete create ways to differentiate. Previously, I was a teacher for many years, and when we were talking about differentiation, it was usually just, here’s my regular level, and I go one level down. AI has expanded our teachers’ understanding of differentiation and allowing them to realize it’s not just one level down. It could be two. It could be two levels up. It could be changing the way that we are presenting material or having the students show what they are learning, which really aligns with student-centered learning as well. But the AI tools are providing those teachers with the opportunities. It’s increasing their knowledge of differentiation, I feel, especially over the past year that I’ve really been digging into everything with differentiation. Our population is much more diverse. Our students, the way that they learn is much more diverse. The teachers are changing changing the way that they are teaching. They’re changing the way that they are differentiating, specifically using these amazing AI tools that they have available to them.

[00:06:11.270] – Steve

It’s interesting. I was just working with the school this week where they’re still struggling with teachers seeing differentiation as outside of tier one instruction. And instead, it’s more and more differentiation is in effect being thought of as tier one instruction with students working with on-level material, but all the differentiation to support them. So I think that’s a critical piece of training for teachers to have as to how AI can help them address that.

[00:06:51.300] – Erin

Yes, absolutely. In one of my other roles, I’m also the gifted liaison. So I work with a lot of our teachers of gifted students. When I start bringing up this term of differentiation to our gifted teachers, they’re like, wait, what do you mean? How is that differentiation? Because I thought differentiation was for our special education students or students who needed some more help because they were challenged too much. It’s like, no, we can use this and we can use AI to help us because it can be overwhelming for our teachers when they are thinking about all the ways they need to differentiate for the students. I’m finding that AI is just a way for the teachers to hone in on what they want to do and spend less time doing the menial tasks that they have to do in order to meet the needs of all their students.

[00:07:45.400] – Steve

So increasingly, schools are describing a goal of customizing pathways for students. How do you see AI moving that goal further along, hopefully faster?

[00:08:03.510] – Josh

Yeah. I mean, AI is, as to what Erin said, it is allowing really, teachers, everyone in schools to delegate some of the menial or repetitive routine tasks to AI tools to focus more time really engaged in meaningful work, which usually is interaction with each other, which is interesting when we think about AI and technology in general, sometimes dehumanizing education. I would argue that if we use AI appropriately, it gives us more time in collaboration and communication with each other. So that’s more general. But then things specifically about customizing pathways. Again, think about differentiation. It’s not just saying, let’s go on level down, let’s go on level up. It really is accounting for all the varied ways that students think and learn and engage with whatever the content of that course is and whatever the skillset they’re developing is. So AI really supports even maybe a step beyond differentiation, personalization of student learning experiences. So on the teacher-facing side, as we discussed, it really lets teachers differentiate to really as many pathways as they can think of. And then on the student-facing side, to an even greater extent, using, for example, personalized AI tutors, students can engage with those tools schools and learn in a way that makes sense to them and ask individual follow-up questions that in lieu of having 25 teachers in the classroom, it’s really a good way for students to get some of that personalized instruction and then still have the teacher there to support and guide and really ensure that students are getting what they need in a way that is most effective.

[00:09:55.530] – Steve

I want to play with that word pathways for a moment to check my thinking against yours, or not against, alongside. I think to me, when we talk differentiation to people, they’re looking at reaching the same goal differently And for me, pathways, I’m recognizing standards need to be met, so that’s part of it. But the pathways also talks about the opportunity to go to different places with part of the learning? Does that align for either of you and your thoughts about pathways?

[00:10:38.990] – Erin

I think it does. I see where you’re saying that we have these standards that we have to meet. Our students have to show that they know the standards, but they can go above and beyond that. Like I said, as part of my role with gifted liaison and working with those teachers of gifted students, we’re able to see where we have a student who is so into a specific topic, and the teacher may not be well-versed in this particular topic. Perhaps we’re talking about trains. This student is really into trains. We can use AI and various tools in AI to help increase that pathway, and maybe we’re expanding upon the standards, the traditional standards that we have for that particular student. I think it’s also a way of customizing the pathway for that student who is struggling and allowing them them to meet the standards at their own pace, still following along with what is required by the Department of Education or the state or whoever is requiring the standards, but allowing them to meet the standards in a different way and therefore customizing their pathway to success.

[00:11:51.360] – Steve

I’m wondering if you’ve got an example or two that you might share of maybe a school that you’re working with or a teacher that you’re working with where that increased pathways was able to occur through their use of AI?

[00:12:07.720] – Erin

Honestly, that train example is one that is a real example with working with one of my teachers allowing that student to hit various ELA standards and various social studies standards, but with the topic of trains. It was just a high level of interest for this particular student. My particular teacher was able to take an assignment that she was doing with the other students, still hitting the standards, using AI, I believe she actually used ChatGPT, put that information in and asked ChatGPT to help her create a lesson still hitting these exact standards, but that aligned along with the student’s interest of trains. It seems silly at times, but at the same time, this is not a topic that she was well-versed in. She didn’t know to differentiate the assignment to meet the needs of the student and allow the student to flourish in what they were interested in. It brought back – she was able to get a really great assignment. It met the standards. It addressed the student’s interest. It allowed them to customize how they were going to meet the standards. I think she could have potentially done this without AI, but it would have taken a lot longer.

[00:13:24.860] – Erin

It would have taken a lot more research on her part. Instead, she was able to get it the information back to her using AI in a shorter amount of time, allowing her to be able to use that time to work on other things with students or use that time for other tasks that needed to be done.

[00:13:42.220] – Steve

It’s interesting because a quick return that I find when I’m doing design work for training sessions or facilitation is AI’s ability to give me a page of questions that I can go down and pick the three that I’m going to build my session around. Compared to the amount of time it would have taken me to sit there and come up with those three or four questions. For a teacher who’s looking to span that out into different pathways with 20 kids in a class, simply being able to find the task or the questions is a big step.

[00:14:20.590] – Erin

Oh, absolutely. I find for myself, I have a very hard time working with a blank slate. If you’re asking me to do something and know I can do it, but if I have a blank sheet of paper, I don’t know how to start, and I stumble in the beginning. But if I can ask ChatGPT or one of our other tools, Magic School, for example, to help me get started, then I’m able to complete the task. And it takes me a lot less time instead of spending two days staring at a blank page, not sure what I’m supposed to start.

[00:14:55.700] – Steve

So what do we have to be providing for students students as far as AI literacy for students to be empowered with the possibilities?

[00:15:10.230] – Josh

Yes. So there are four big bucket areas that I’ll talk about in a second. But just to rewind, because I think answering this question really depends on how schools are planning to implement AI, which goes back to the conversation we’re having around learning pathways and differentiation, which is really all about the learning model. And I think what is so exciting to some and scary to others is that AI will really force us to rethink our learning models and how they can – it’s not just necessarily implementing AI into our existing structures. It’s what new structures do we have in place to meet the needs of students going out into this world that we live in, in the world that will exist when they’re graduating. So that’s the big picture. But going back into…

[00:16:05.120] – Steve

Josh, I got to stop just a second before you go. I got to tell you how much I’m hoping you’re right. [laughter]

[00:16:10.090] – Josh

I’ve got 50 years in, and I don’t want to tell you how many times we looked at something and I thought, this is going to change the system.

[00:16:25.170] – Steve

I’m agreeing with you. I’m right there. But I know I know that’s not easy.

[00:16:31.650] – Josh

Yeah. I know last time on last episode we did together, I talked about how AI and its expansion and the explosion of large language models is in some ways disruptive in the same way COVID was. Similar to COVID, where I was very optimistic that it would lead to really major changes in our education systems. We’ve click back into gear for better or worse as we were before. So I could certainly see a world where maybe it doesn’t have the impact that we want it to. But I do also think that because it is so ubiquitous, it’s on student phones, it’s everywhere. I think it will force change in a way. I don’t know. I mean, we’ll see. But I’m optimistic it will force change in doing so. It’ll break some things that exist, but allow for some space for new things. So we’ll see. But going back to what students really need to be literate and use AI effectively and to empower them, the four pocket areas that we think of are first the technical skills. So what just technical knowledge do they need? So prompt engineering, even just using the interfaces that exist out there.

[00:17:53.260] – Josh

A lot of the large language models use very similar interfaces with your chat history on one side, the context window in the middle, and then you type in at the bottom. So just basic but important technical skills like that. And then also effective applications. So not just how to use it, but really how to use it well and how to use it in a way that will augment their learning and not just replace their learning. And that goes into the third area, which is ethical use. So what does it mean to use it ethically in school, at home? What sharing do you have to around how you’re using it and all of that. So one thing we’re encouraging teachers to use and schools to use is some AI use scale. So that way it can easily be pointed to, here’s how in this specific instance, we believe it’s acceptable to use AI, just to give students and even teachers some clarity there. And then the final pocket area is critical evaluation skills, because so much of this goes back to information literacy and understanding why AI can sometimes produce inaccurate results and how to critically evaluate the information you’re getting.

[00:19:08.780] – Josh

So you’re not just taking it at face value, but really considering it and making it your own before putting it out into the world.

[00:19:17.750] – Steve

Thanks. So before we wrap up, most of the listeners on this podcast are school leaders and instructional coaches. And I’m wondering what thoughts you would share with them as to ways that they can best support teachers to continually be increasing their understanding of the possibilities for using AI to empower learning.

[00:19:46.120] – Erin

I think one of the most common phrases that I tend to give in professional developments I do on AI or people that I talk to about it is, don’t be afraid of AI, but be cautious. We want to make make sure that we are following through all those steps of AI literacy that Josh was talking about, but it is not going away. It’s been around for longer than we probably realize. I feel that it’s imperative that we work towards educating everyone on how to use AI, what some best practices might be. When I say everyone, I mean the administrators, the teachers, as well as the students, and maybe even the parents, including various forms professional development, showing teachers and students how to use it, how not to use it, when it is appropriate to use it, or when it’s not. But ultimately, it is here. It’s going to continue to stay. It’s going to continue to enhance learning. And how can we use it in a way that works for us without taking away from our students’ experience of learning?

[00:20:59.200] – Steve

Josh, anything to add?

[00:21:01.000] – Josh

Yeah, I would add two parting messages for administrators. One is, regardless of where any individual administrator might stand now with their understanding of or use of AI, I would start with making a personal habit out of using it, not even necessarily in a professional setting, although you could start there, but really just building some familiarity with it, some comfort with it, and being transparent with your teachers about how you’re using it, what’s what’s going well, what’s not going well, because there’s always, for all the amazing things AI can do, there are still those situations where you get incredibly frustrated, and that’s just a natural part of it. And to be transparent about that and honest with your teachers goes a long way in showing them that you don’t have all the answers. And AI is not a perfect tool or the solution to everything, but it is a powerful tool that can be useful. And my other takeaway is that going back to where we started talking about policy is that is a process that requires a lot of consensus from different stakeholders, often board members. I would not wait for policy to start putting out guidelines for teachers.

[00:22:14.200] – Josh

That will likely be a cyclical process of developing guidelines, developing policy, having the policy inform updated guidelines, and so on and so on. So I would say, in order to really set teachers up for success, start to think and share guidelines, even if policy is in the process of being developed.

[00:22:34.980] – Steve

Yeah, it’s a powerful thought. I can see even as a minimal, having the teachers work with the principal to put together what are the guidelines we’re going to use in this building for our next step if we have to wait for the system to move ahead.

[00:22:51.800] – Josh

Yeah, there’s no reason it can’t be a collaborative process.

[00:22:54.200] – Steve

I really appreciate your input. I’m wondering, as we to wrap up, what’s the best way for any listeners to be able to follow up with you if they have questions or they can see some of the work and the PD that you guys are providing?

[00:23:12.920] – Erin

Best way to reach me actually would probably be email. It is erinc@cciu.org.

[00:23:24.760] – Steve

Thanks.

[00:23:25.830] – Josh

And I will add, just to get a general sense of the work we do at Chester County Intermediate Unit, you can go to cciu.org. and to get in touch with me specifically, I’m also reachable by email. That’s usually the first thing I’ll see. So that is joshe@cciu.org. And then I’m also on LinkedIn. If you just Google my name and LinkedIn, it’ll pop up there. And that’s really my primary social media at this point. As everything else is in flux, LinkedIn has been a rock.

[00:24:00.040] – Steve

I’m with you on that one. We’ll be here to put those connections in the lead into the podcast so folks can jump back and find it. Thanks so much. Really appreciate it.

[00:24:10.850] – Erin

Thank you.

[00:24:11.720] – Josh

Thank you.

[00:24:13.360] – Steve [Outro]

Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear what you’re pondering. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn at Steve Barkley, or send me your questions and find my videos and blogs at barkleypd.com.

In what ways can AI be a teacher’s assistant? How do you keep a “human touch” in the AI assessment process? How can AI empower students as they request assessment feedback? Josh Ecker and Erin Cummings from the Ed Tech and Learning Design Team at Chester County Intermediate Unit in Pennsylvania examine these and additional questions with Steve.

Visit Chester County’s AI Support site here.

Email Josh Ecker: joshe@cciu.org

Email Erin Cummings: erinc@cciu.org

Subscribe to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast on iTunes or visit BarkleyPD.com to find new episodes!

Podcast Transcript:

[00:00:00.210] – Steve [Intro]

Hello, and welcome to the Teacher Edition of Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud. Teaching is a complex and rewarding journey, and I’m always eager to explore the many ways teachers engage students in their learning. This podcast is dedicated to supporting you, the teacher, as you inspire and guide your students. Thanks for joining me. I’m excited you’re here.

[00:00:30.040] – Steve

AI Powered Assessment: Moving Beyond Traditional Testing. Joining the podcast today are Josh Ecker, Learning Design Coordinator, and Erin Cummings, Learning Innovation Specialist and gifted liaison at Chester County Intermediate Unit in Pennsylvania. They both provide specialized artificial intelligence consulting services for K-12 schools, focusing on integrating cutting-edge AI technology and the classrooms, enhancing learning experiences for students. Erin and Josh, thanks so much for joining us.

[00:01:07.610] – Erin

Thank you for having us.

[00:01:09.360] – Josh

Yeah, thank you.

[00:01:10.860] – Steve

As I explore the impact of AI, both from a teaching lens and a learning lens, the word empower continually appears. So I’m wondering if we started this with, how do you see AI empowering teachers?

[00:01:27.880] – Erin

I see AI empowering teachers in a variety of ways. A simplified way of empowering is helping with all the busy work that teachers have to do or the creation of worksheets, that type of thing. It allows those teachers it empowers them to spend more time on what is really meaningful and important in the classroom, thinking about perhaps creating that vision and the goals of their class instead of doing day-to-day tasks that take a while. We might have a teacher who is trying to come up with a hundred different warm-up questions to have throughout the course of the year, and they’re spending hours on this. Instead, they can use an AI tool to help them create this and spend maybe 5, 10 minutes, maybe half an hour at most, and have so much more time to really create more empowering lessons and more meaningful lessons for their students.

[00:02:26.530] – Steve

Would you go a little further with when you pull the word meaningful in there?

[00:02:32.790] – Erin

Sometimes there are tasks that have to be done, such as some districts might require warmups to be done every day. In the example I gave, we might have teachers who are spending hours trying to come up with these warmups or bell ringer type questions. Instead of looking at an assignment that they could be doing that would be more meaningful to the student, that would make them more interested in the content or be able to relate to the content more. I can remember as a teacher having to spend time for bell ringers and exit tickets, and then it comes time to the assignment that I actually want to create. And as I was teaching math in a special education classroom, and it’s like, well, do I just create a simple worksheet or can I create an assignment where my students will actually engage more with the content and it would be more meaningful to them? They would understand the content, what I’m teaching more. I would rather spend the time on that than those menial tasks or writing an objective up on the board. I’d rather be able to create an assignment where my student is, we’re working on budgeting and they’re able to create a budget for living in an apartment and all of the things that they need to include in that, which makes them more invested in their learning.

[00:03:56.140] – Steve

Can I stick the word relational in there or relationship?

[00:04:00.900] – Josh

Yeah.

[00:04:02.360] – Steve

Knowing the student more.

[00:04:04.540] – Erin

Absolutely.

[00:04:06.970] – Steve

I’m doing a trigger as I was listening to you, to my past, working with the dean of education at a school a whole lot of years ago when technology was first coming into the classroom. And he talked about the teachers who were afraid of technology was going to take over their job a role. And his response was, if you thought of the technology as a co-person in the classroom, what’s the technology good at doing? Whatever that is, you probably don’t want to compete with that. So what are you a whole lot better doing? And that’s what I was hearing in your description of meaningful, is that the teacher has the time to invest in knowing the student making that happen for the student.

[00:05:02.420] – Erin

Oh, absolutely. I found using technology to help me with those – not meaningless, but those simple tasks, the menial tasks, allowed me to create lessons and assignments and reach my students in ways that weren’t possible. I was able to do a station rotation and be able to create stations that made sense to my students, that they could do independently, that they wanted to actually do instead of, well, I didn’t have time, so here’s a worksheet of 10 questions.

[00:05:37.800] – Steve

I want to be looking at assessment today, and I know that when I visited your site and one of the sentences I saw in there was looking at AI as a teacher assistant. Is there a way that you describe that AI can provide that assistant role, especially as it connects to assessment?

[00:06:05.770] – Josh

Yeah, absolutely. So really, when we say, what can AI do? If it’s anything related to generating text, it can do it. Now, it can do it to varying degrees of success, depending on the task. But when we talk about it being an assistant, it really can help teachers with anything they’re doing that is ending up in a text-based document. Now, that’s really broad, really general, focusing specifically on assessment, it can create assessments. It can evaluate your assessments and provide feedback. It can provide student feedback on their work. Now, there are, again, varying degrees of success with each of those tasks. And the more initial responsibility you give to AI, the more important it is for you to review and revise and make sure it’s accurate and fair. So I would say my starting point at using AI as a teaching assistant would be to have it evaluate my assessments. And then from there, maybe create some assessment questions. Maybe those are open-ended, maybe they’re multiple choice. When we talk about menial tasks that take away from meaningful relationship building, think about building out multiple choice questions with the wrong answers. I mean, it’s not our time best spent as teachers.

[00:07:28.820] – Josh

So AI I can help create questions like that, open-ended questions. And then when we talk about providing feedback on student work, being an assistant to the teacher in that way, that is the area that I think requires the most delicate hand by the teachers because that feedback is seen by students. It needs to be accurate because that feedback process, that interaction with the teacher and student is one of the most important parts of the learning experience. So for teachers who want to use AI to provide student feedback, I would still ensure that I, as a teacher, was in the middle there. But it can do that. I mean, it can do all of these things. And over time, it can do them better and better. So that’s exciting and gives opportunities for teachers to continue to engage in that more meaningful work.

[00:08:21.510] – Steve

So how do we keep the human touch built into that?

[00:08:25.600] – Erin

One of the things that we emphasize a lot in our trainings is is this 80/20 approach. 80% of what you’re using AI for, or perhaps it’s creating that assessment, is AI. But 20% still needs to be the educator, the human. AI is not perfect. It has increased its intelligence over the course of the past year, even over the course of the past month. But it’s still not us. It is something that we really want to emphasize that teaching ultimately still needs to be done by the teacher. We can’t rely on AI 100%. Perhaps we have an example of a teacher uses AI to create an assessment 100%. The student uses AI to complete the assessment 100%. The teacher uses AI to provide feedback 100%. And then the student uses that feedback from AI into AI to then revise the assessment. Where is the learning here?

[00:09:38.680] – Steve

That’s sounding like a science fiction movie to me. [laughter]

[00:09:41.470] – Erin

[laughter] It really does. I see it often where teachers want to use it, and they use it, and it comes back with something awesome. They’re like, okay, I’m good. It’s like, no, we need to stop, and we need to look through this, because when you look through it, There will be mistakes. There will be things that are not correct. An example is one of the tools that I’ve used will help create questions from a YouTube video as long as closed captioning is enabled. Great. Let’s do this. I put the video link in, it shoots back 10 questions, I copy and paste, and I give it to my students. Unfortunately, perhaps that closed captioning wasn’t accurate, and it changed one of the words because we know closed captioning is not always 100%, so now the question is inaccurate, the answers are inaccurate, and we’re not doing right by our students. So we want to make sure that we’re still reviewing those documents that are coming out. And Josh and I and our colleagues really emphasize that whenever we are with educators. I was in a workshop with ISTI on Tuesday, and the same thing. They are emphasizing making sure that you are continuing to go back and look at what what AI is giving you because it is important.

[00:11:03.530] – Erin

AI is artificial. It is not a human. It’s not going to create that connection that our students need.

[00:11:11.440] – Josh

I would add to that, too, that from my own just personal experience using AI, it is really helpful to, as the human in the loop, be there at the start. To provide or really vision out the overall structure of whatever it is you’re asking AI to do. So for an assessment, that might mean rather than prompting an AI tool saying, I need 10 multiple choice questions on this topic, go – it might be a little bit more involved up front and saying, I’m a teacher who teaches this, really give them the additional context and then saying, The unit we’re working on covers these topics. I want two questions on this, two on this, and really going into a higher level of depth and as the human, owning that overall vision or structure. Because it’s really hard, I found, to go back once you’ve delegated the big picture responsibilities to AI, to as the human in the loop, understand why is it doing this? Where did this come from? So to really break it down more and more, you can still have it accomplish really big tasks, but maybe in smaller chunks rather than all at once.

[00:12:24.250] – Steve

So I’m wondering about, are there tools out there that students can use with the student making the choice to do it in order to get feedback to advance their learning? Maybe feedback that a student gets before they take the next step to their teacher or the teacher is not available and I think I’m doing this right, but I’d like feedback. Are we at that spot yet?

[00:12:54.960] – Josh

Yes. And there are actually a decent number of AI tools that provide free accounts, free individual accounts. Their freemium model is to provide free individual accounts and then show the values. So that way, schools take on school-wide licenses and things like that. There are, in terms of specific tools, when we’re thinking about the large language models themselves, there’s ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini. Those would be my top three personally. And then there’s also Copilot and Perplexity. And then in terms of school-specific tools that students can access, there’s Magic School, School AI, ConMigo. And one small caveat to all this is that with how quickly the technology changes, the specific tools we’re putting out there could be irrelevant in six months. There are some we can predict will be around for the long haul, but you never know. So all of this is to say that these are the tools as of today, as of recording, that are popular and common in that we’ve seen. But the main thing is to understand the overall way students can use them. So that way, regardless of the tool, we have the use cases in mind. Now, in terms of the general large language models versus the school-specific tools.

[00:14:17.620] – Josh

The school-specific tools are generally wrappers on top of the large language models. So they’re basically using the LLMs, but then adding a user interface on top. Anything the school-specific models can the large language models can do also. But what is sometimes better about the school-specific tools is, one, it provides a friendlier user interface. It allows for, if it is a school-wide or classroom-wide license, it allows oversight from the teacher to see how students are using it. It also provides guardrails for students. Sometimes with the school-specific tools, it will really guide students back to the topic at hand, or if a student asks it to generate a five-paragraph essay, it will say, no, that’s actually not how we’re using it today. So it’ll give them some guardrails. So that is all helpful. And it will also be compliant with privacy laws, so FURPA regulations and all of that. So I would say it’s a good place to start. But, yeah, students can access most of these tools for free, which can be a good or a bad thing, right? As long as we’re providing students the guidance to use it effectively and safely, I would argue it It’s a good thing.

[00:15:30.540] – Josh

But that’s a really important and big step in the process.

[00:15:34.980] – Steve

Well, working with the teacher, playing with the thought of, first of all, teaching students how to get the feedback. But we were looking at writing and imagining that students got feedback on their first draft from AI, on their second draft from AI, and then their third one went to the teacher. But when they handed the third one in, they also handed in copies of the feedback that they got from AI so that the teacher could track the student’s learning process in the student learning, how to use the feedback.

[00:16:14.910] – Josh

It really is, both with the assessment process and just the entire learning process with AI, so much of it is about documenting that process so students can show their learning. Because now it’s really impossible to tell if the output is from the student or from the tool they’re using unless we see the steps they took to get there and they can articulate that. So it is definitely an important process. And I like that approach of starting with AI feedback, ending with teacher feedback to really give students opportunities for more feedback and more learning without overtaxing the teacher and making it impossible for them to work with all their students.

[00:16:53.480] – Steve

I was going to ask you for some cautions for teachers who are looking at taking the first step into using AI for assessment. And I think I’ve heard one that you labeled for it says, if you can do it within the school LMS, that’s the better place to start. Did I hear that right?

[00:17:16.140] – Josh

Yeah, I would start with embedding something in the LMS or even just having a school-specific tool that is built around a teacher license or even a school-wide license, because that really provides a level of oversight and guidance that might not be necessary forever. But I think as we’re all learning about how to use AI, starting with more of those guardrails in place will be helpful. And take some pressure off of teachers to be responsible for acceptable use because that’s a challenge in itself. Anything we can do to make it easier for teachers in that regard is helpful.

[00:17:57.120] – Steve

Other questions you’d suggest teachers to be considering?

[00:18:01.570] – Erin

I highly recommend to start small. Don’t expect to get 100% of your assessment right off the bat. Because you need to learn how the AI works, and the AI needs to learn how you work as well. So if you are starting with a small part of it and then working your way up from that. Don’t get overwhelmed. There are a lot of tools out there, but it doesn’t mean you have to use every single one. But also it’s okay if a certain tool is not for you. Maybe find something else that works, but don’t give up on AI just after one attempt. If you try and use Magic School and you’re like, no, this is not for me. I don’t like it. There are other tools that could help. But definitely start small and just build your capacity up with how you’re working with AI.

[00:18:54.540] – Josh

I would add to that as a teacher, you have the unique opportunity to really experiment with a lot of things that are out there. And as part of that process, I would circle back with an administrator in your building, in your district, to check and just ensure that your thinking is aligned on how AI can best be used in your context. So if you’re circling back, I think it allows you to continue experimenting without having to worry about going down the wrong path with it or going down a path that maybe your context isn’t quite ready for.

[00:19:29.270] – Steve

Thanks. So in closing out, I wonder what your hopes and dreams are. What are you hopeful for teachers and students to discover about AI’s ability to empower learning?

[00:19:47.850] – Erin

I am hopeful that teachers and students alike are learning how AI can really leverage their learning and enhance their learning I hope that they are understanding that they’re not alone. And students and teachers alike, as well as administrators, there are many people going through the same process. And it is not one size fits all. It is definitely a learning curve with certain aspects of it, but it definitely can just enhance your teaching. It can enhance your learning. It can enhance the way you interact with content in so many different ways. And I really hope that teachers continue to ask questions, and they continue to use it, and they continue to just enhance their learning.

[00:20:43.340] – Josh

I would add that it really is such a powerful tool that there isn’t a teacher, there isn’t an educator out there who can’t augment their own practices with it in some way. And that will be different for everyone. It’s not a one one size fits all in terms of how to use these tools, which tools to use. But there is some benefit out there to everyone. So I hope everyone starts to explore what that individual benefit is and then shares those with their communities and with their larger educational communities because it is something we’re all learning from each other. Like Erin said, we’re all in this together and there’s no one size fits all. And bigger picture, I really hope that teachers, really everyone in schools starts to consider how this can allow us to transform education systemically and really empower students, empower teachers to create really, really meaningful learning experiences that allow for more of that relationship building, more personalized and contextualized learning, and really use this as a tool for positive change.

[00:21:53.540] – Steve

Well said. Thank you both. I really appreciate it. What’s the best way for listeners to follow up, find out more about the work you’re doing, or come back to you with some questions?

[00:22:04.850] – Erin

Probably the best way to get in touch with me would be through email. It’s erinc@cciu.org. I can also be found on LinkedIn if you Google Erin Cummings.

[00:22:15.410] – Josh

And for me, same option. So my email is joshe@cciu.org. Linkedin, you can just Google my name and search LinkedIn and I’ll pop up. And then if you want to learn more about what we’re doing at Chester County Intermediate Unit, you can go to our website, cciu.org.

[00:22:36.230] – Steve

Thanks so much, guys. Have a great rest of your day.

[00:22:39.770] – Erin

Thank you. You, too.

[00:22:40.050] – Steve [Outro]

Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear what you’re pondering. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn at Steve Barkley, or send me your questions and find my videos and blogs at barkleypd.com.

School leaders’ own engagement and modeling of AI is important to support teachers in successfully initiating AI opportunities for teaching and learning. How can instructional coaches introduce and model AI use in their coaching activities with teachers? What might a school or district position statement on AI contain? Technology and design leaders from the Chester County Intermediate Unit in Pennsylvania, Josh Ecker and Kylie Hand, share the ways they support school leaders at various stages of AI implementation in their schools.

Resources: 

• Future of Work Report – LinkedIn
• Value Add of Technology on Teaching Framework
• TeachAI.org 
• AI Tools List
• Assessment Reform in the Age of AI
• Common Sense Media’s AI’s Impact on Kids

AI in Education News & Guidance

• AI for Education
• AIxEducation
• Common Sense Media AI
• EDSafeAI
• EngageAI Institute
• GSV: AI & Education
• TeachAI
• The AI Educator
• UNESCO

AI Curriculum Resources

• AI4K12
• AIedu
• Code.org/AI
• CSTA
• DataScience4Everyone
• PA’S AI Resources for CSEdWeek2023

Individuals 

• Rebecca Bultsma
• Monica Burns
• Vicki Davis
• Dr. Kip Glazer
• Dr. Josh Ecker
• Kylie Hand
• AJ Juliani
• Dr. Ethan Mollick
• Charlie Reisinger
• Dr. Demetrius Roberts
• John Spencer

Our Contact Info:

Kylie Hand, Director of Learning Design & EdTech, Chester County Intermediate Unit: KylieH@cciu.org

Personal Social Media:

• X: @mrskyliehand
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyliehand/

Josh Ecker, Learning Design Coordinator, JoshE@cciu.org

Personal Social Media:

• X: @JoshEcker
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-ecker

Podcast Transcript:

[00:00:00.250] – Steve [Intro]

Welcome to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast. As instructional coaches and school leaders, you have a challenge to guide continuous teacher growth that promotes student success. This podcast looks to support you with strategies from our experienced guests and insights that I’ve gathered across many years. I’m thrilled you’re here. Thanks for listening.

[00:00:30.450] – Steve

Supporting teachers’ exploration of AI for teaching and learning. I’m joined on this podcast with education technology leaders from the Chester County Intermediate Unit in Pennsylvania, which serves as a education service agency. Josh Ecker, who is the learning design coordinator and Kylie Hand, who is the director of learning design and educational technology. Welcome, Kylie and Josh.

[00:01:02.110] – Josh

Thanks, Steve.

[00:01:03.200] – Kylie

Thank you, Steve. Glad to be back.

[00:01:05.690] – Steve

Glad to have you here. I’m wondering for starters, if you might each take a little bit of time to describe your role at the IU and the services that you provide out to your schools.

[00:01:20.590] – Josh

Sure. So I will go first because I am, relative to Kylie, a newbie to the IU, so I’m sure she’ll be able to elaborate a little. At the IU, as the learning design coordinator, I work with a team of consultants around any projects schools are doing with learning design in general, especially ed-tech infused learning design. So a lot of work with AI, student centered learning, and any other projects and innovative work districts want to bring to their district.

[00:01:52.330] – Steve

Thanks. Kylie?

[00:01:54.240] – Kylie

To add to that, I get the real pleasure of getting to work with Josh and others, jennifer Barron, who we met in an earlier episode here to help support the integration of instructional technology across school settings. I also get to help oversee some of our certification endorsement programs and really help others to understand how learning can look through different modalities. I also get the pleasure of getting to partner and collaborate with others beyond the intermediate unit. And so Josh and I and others get to work with counterparts across our state and then really, as we develop professionally as lead learners, collaborate with others across the nation to try to stay abreast of the research, the evidence, and the growing trends within school systems, educational technology, learning design, competency based learning, and so forth.

[00:02:43.870] – Steve

Thanks and excited that you agreed to join us here with a focus on AI. So I know the initial response to the appearance of AI was in some ways a sense of fear that ranged from security concerns to students cheating. Realizing that there’s a lot to addressing those issues, I’m wondering if you can provide some elements that school leaders who are the group that tunes into this podcast, but mostly building level leaders and instructional coach leaders, some of the elements that leaders should be aware of with the entry of AI.

[00:03:29.770] – Kylie

I think we oftentimes hear of that, when I interpreted your question initially, I’m thinking of concerns, kind of liabilities, things that we should look out for the big bad wolf in this situation. But I’m thinking to maybe start with, spinning it from a more positive angle. So some of the things that school leaders should be aware of is that AI is here and that we are going to need to teach our students how to leverage it appropriately. And one of the best ways that they can do that from a proactive and positive approach, rather than that big bad wolf approach, is modeling it with their faculty. So if I’m an instructional coach, if I’m a principal, assistant principal or central office leader, I should be using AI. I should be the lead learner using AI, and then I should be modeling it with my teachers. When I’m doing something that I could very easily use AI for, I should do that and then I should almost do like the think aloud, just like we do with our students. As to here’s what I did with AI, here’s some of the pitfalls, here’s some of the limitations, here’s what prompting I used.

[00:04:31.860] – Kylie

Here’s what I found worked and didn’t work just to help onboard them a little bit. So I would say maybe start with, think about starting with modeling.

[00:04:40.530] – Steve

So just to check on that, I’m almost envisioning that an instructional coach sitting next to a teacher in a conference, whether it’s a planning conference or generating ideas to tackle an issue the teachers raised, the coach could almost turn to an AI tool there in the conference and model that interaction with AI directly for the teacher.

[00:05:06.790] – Kylie

Oh, absolutely. Pre and post conference. It doesn’t have to just be synchronous. It could be, I’m going to follow up and send you some ideas. And then when the ideas are sent, giving a nod and some credit, I got these ideas from Bard, which is Google’s AI tool, or I got these ideas from Chat GPT.

[00:05:25.710] – Steve

Yeah, I appreciate the reinforcement because I’ve been doing it virtually. I finished the conversation with the teacher and as Zoom went off, I thought, oh man, I should have looked at this. So I jumped in, pulled it up, and then sent the teacher the link for it. Josh, you want to add to that?

[00:05:43.430] – Josh

Yeah, I think on more the reactive or concerned side of the ledger that Kylie was talking about, I think about the data privacy piece, school policies, and I think as coaches, they can support teachers with keeping those considerations in mind during planning and implementation. And then on more the proactive, exciting side of AI and what it can do for our schools is really looking at how we’re future proofing our teaching and learning. And what that means is how are we preparing students for the world that they exist in now, but that they’re also going to be going into, especially after they graduate high school, whether they’re entering the workforce or going to a university somewhere. And it really is the question if AI is going to become as ubiquitous as we all see it becoming, isn’t it a disservice to our students to not build it into their school experience? So that’s kind of the general thought that I keep in mind, because if we’re not being proactive, it’s going to become a problem, whereas it can really be a solution to a lot of current problems.

[00:06:56.010] – Kylie

And to add to that, when we are future proofing our teaching and learning, that is going to look like we may need to outline our assignments by which level of AI use is acceptable in the assignment. We need to also, as teachers, as educators, realize that AI detection may not be possible. It likely is not possible, will not be possible. There’s been a lot of discussion in the higher Ed realm and in the K-12 realm around AI detectors. And really that is not something that we encourage based on the evidence and some of the biases that are actually built within those detectors. So I think a proactive approach would be to talk with your teachers if you suspect that AI use is happening on an assignment in which you clearly said, I really want you to give me your own thinking on this, because it would remove the cognitive lift of the learning process from the learner, then I think we need to have a process in place. So it shouldn’t just be, “I looked at your assignment and it looks too good. You can possibly have written this, right?” Because that is something that conveys another bias to a student from the teacher aspect, which could be really damaging to that student.

[00:08:10.420] – Kylie

So what is an honoring approach to suspected use? Is it, let’s have conversations around your product or your process, and how did you get here? And I really wanted you to learn this particular skill, and it seems like you used AI to really substitute the learning process here. So what does that actual conversation look like? I think it’s incumbent upon our coaches and our school leaders to help our teachers think through that so that they don’t have to react to it, and it’s consistent across classes and teachers.

[00:08:46.270] – Steve

So for the schools that are at the beginning stage of tapping into the benefits, what are some of the starting points that instructional coaches and administrators could be supporting in those initial steps?

[00:09:02.050] – Josh

This is a question that we’ve really – it’s been a huge focus for us both internally in our team and also in our conversations with districts and their admin teams. And we’ve been working on developing some different entry points that districts can take. We have, I want to say, around ten or so in total different entry points, and I won’t go through all of those unless you want this to be a three hour podcast, but I would say the three that if I were a building administrator or an instructional coach on a team getting this work started, the three starting points that I would really consider are modeling and sharing AI with teachers, so exposing them to the benefits and some of the potential downsides of it, discussing the impact of AI with teachers, with the school board, with the community, really, with any stakeholders who are involved in the school environment at all, and then developing an AI position statement and that can really guide the more nitty gritty work that follow.

[00:10:09.930] – Steve

Can you talk a little bit about the kinds of things that might be in a position statement?

[00:10:15.210] – Josh

Yeah. So, Kylie, I think this is something that you can really speak.

[00:10:21.530] – Kylie

Sure, so a couple of examples that come to mind would be Radner Township School District, which is a little bit outside of our county, but within our region. They put together a position, it’s like a one pager. And then the Russell group was really early on, I think as a front runner, it’s a group of universities in the UK that put together something, and it is for higher ed, but I think it could still be applicable for K-12 and it’s a little longer than one page. But really the beliefs that an organization, a school district hold about the usage of AI, I don’t want to put the words in a position statement for a district, but what is in some of these position statements is what we believe about AI usage in education. So we believe that things such as we believe AI is here to stay, we want to embrace it. That means that we’re going to have to rethink some of the assessment strategies, some of the instructional strategies, so that we can make our learning meaningful and relevant, that we’re committed to that, and that we’re going to do that through professional learning, things like that.

[00:11:30.360] – Kylie

So those are just some of the pieces for it. But I would encourage when putting together some position statements, to consider research on best practices for instruction generally that have nothing to do with AI, but also just kind of what do we want our students to be as future ready learners. So I would look at some of the research about what’s coming out from reports like LinkedIn about the future of work, so that if we are expecting to get our students career and college ready or future ready, that we are embedding that into our curriculum and instructional practices.

[00:12:08.670] – Steve

There’s an idea floating around in my head, so I want to run it by you. And I may be totally off, in which case it’s okay to tell me that, but it’s one of the reasons I like doing the podcast informally. As I was listening to you describe several pieces here in the beginning stages, I’m getting a sense that leaders dealing with AI have to take a more active engagement in the process than perhaps they have done with other technology. I’m kind of getting a read –  there was a time the principal could bring the technology coach into the school, create a technology coach position, and kind of hand that thing off to that person. But in listening to you, I’m pondering that leaders with this may need to take a more engaged front end piece.

[00:13:15.110] – Kylie

I would echo that. I think that’s absolutely true. AI is something that really affects all of us, and I think it brings to light because it’s not that AI in general is a new technology, but the access to it, for a lay consumer like myself to be able to access it so widely, has really changed. And it brings to light a lot of new questions and kind of quandaries around ethics and integrity and it brings to light some questions as to what we’re teaching our students. Do we need to teach them in the same way? And if not, then how are we teaching them and what now new things do we need to teach them? So it begs a lot of new questions that we may not have had to grapple with when another new technology came out. One common, similar thread, I might say, would maybe be social media. When social media came out, that was something that was pretty widespread and at the time, sometimes schools would say, oh, well, that’s something that happens outside of the school walls. But then, as we see now in present day, it really bleeds into the school day and is something that we sometimes and oftentimes will encourage students to use, but use in a way that’s judicious and careful and responsible.

[00:14:40.270] – Josh

Yeah, I think that connection to social media is really good. And I would say in general, schools and districts aren’t always the most nimble organizations. They’re not always used to reacting something very quickly and being proactive because there are so many stakeholders, and it’s really important to get that buy in with big decisions. But I think with how quickly generative AI has become a major factor in all of our lives and in the school setting, administrators have to be involved because it takes everyone staying involved and committed to make these decisions more quickly than you might have to make them with other technology or other issues or new things that might arise.

[00:15:24.190] – Steve

So I had asked you about the schools that were at the beginning, implementation piece here or exploration piece and I’m wondering if you’d spend a little time taking us to the other end of that continuum. Are you working with some schools, some educators who kind of jumped in with both feet early on? I’d love to hear what some of those places are making happening for students. And you got thoughts of what’s going to come after that possibility thinking for us.

[00:16:00.490] – Kylie

Yeah, so the school districts that we have seen related to your previous question, the ones that are the front runners are the ones where the leaders took the bull by the horns and just wanted to move forward with this kind of seeing what Josh shared, things are changing so rapidly. It is so hard in a school setting because there are so many competing initiatives, mandates, needs, day to day operations, serving the community, and we understand time is a factor. So one of the things, though, that we’ve seen that’s been helpful is not that the leader themselves is doing all the work, but that they have created these stakeholder groups. And I think once they create these stakeholder groups, identify some of the problems, the issues, the opportunities, then what we’ve seen, it’s almost like a very quick domino effect. Well, if we want to use it, well, what tools do we use? Well, how do we vet those tools? What are the possibilities with AI? Okay, now that I’ve gotten this in the teacher’s hands, what do we want students to use? Well, if we want them to use it, we have to vet the tool.

[00:17:02.880] – Kylie

We have to look at the privacy concerns. We have to consider if the privacy says that it’s for students 18 and under but with parent consent, well, now we have to put in some kind of process. Maybe it’s a permission slip process, which we’ve seen some of our school districts use to use a particular AI tool. And now if I’m using AI tools, I need to teach the safe and responsible use to my students. And then if I’m going to do that, then I have to articulate the guidelines for a particular assignment. When should and shouldn’t they use it? How should they cite it? So once you start going, it then seems to progress quite naturally, and we’ve seen this happen in a few different school districts. I think some districts are just a little resistant because they know once they pull off the band aid, that it’s just going to continue these additional conversations. But we hope that they’re productive conversations. It’s just that sometimes the unknown can be a bit scary and daunting and overwhelming. And that’s why folks like Josh and I exist, so that if you are concerned about how to go down the path, or you want some thought partners or guidance, we can share some of that with school districts as partners.

[00:18:15.830] – Josh

And building off of what Kylie said, there are a couple things in particular we’ve done with some of those earlier adopters. One is there’s a framework called the value add of technology on teaching, which is essentially an evaluation tool for new technologies a school might want to bring in, or it could even be used by individual teachers. And we really like this tool because it is a little more concrete, I would say, than some of the other evaluative tools out there. It really allows teachers or coaches or administrators to think about the impact of the tool in the classroom or the impact on learning. So that framework has been helpful so far for the districts we’ve introduced it to. And then a project I’m thinking of in particular that we worked with the district on is developing a course for students to understand generative AI, its history, and also what appropriate use looks like. So that’s really building their capacity to use it appropriately and effectively as that district starts to bring it more into their day to day instruction.

[00:19:29.800] – Steve

That’s very cool. Is that secondary level? Is that part of a course or is it a course stands on its own?

[00:19:40.610] – Josh

It’s a micro course. So it’s like a 1 hour course broken up into 3, 20 minutes segments for grades nine through twelve. And I believe they gave the students a time frame to complete it. So I think it’s being completed during study hall or some kind of other time during the school day, but I don’t think it’s part of their core contact classes.

[00:20:05.680] – Steve

Got you. So can you think of one of the places that you’ve worked with where you can kind of point us and say, here’s a pretty neat picture of students getting engaged in the learning process in a way that wasn’t happening, at least not at the depth or the level that AI has made the opportunity for it to happen at? Something come to mind with that?

[00:20:36.470] – Kylie

I would say that just speaking to the example Josh gave, we had a lot of feedback from students about the course as part of the assessment in the course where they said, I thought I knew a lot about AI, or I thought I knew what AI was, how it worked, but I realized I really didn’t. And so I think that one of the things that we get to do when we talk about AI with students is help them to understand some of the concepts of computational thinking and algorithmic literature, understanding that there are these certain patterns to AI that we can decompose our assignments into specific prompts to get us to a specific outcome that we might be looking for. So I think a lot of our schools that we’re working with are front running, are just starting the use of AI, which is exciting, but they’re doing it in a way that is measured and cautious. And I think that’s a strong approach because there are so many tools and things out there, and I think we need to – while students may be using them already outside of the school day, I think giving students a strong foundation in how AI generally works, and then how it can be implemented within a structured environment, within a particular set of tools, I think is a way to go so that they get comfortable and then can apply those in the real world settings to the other things that they may or may not be using.

[00:22:08.830] – Josh

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, Kylie. It feels like districts, the early adopting districts, are just on sort of the brink of introducing that in classrooms for students in a lot of ways. What I’m hoping to see is some of those really personalized tutoring tools come into place. So things like Conmigo and I think Duolingo also has some Chat GPT integration. So that, know, if I was thinking of myself being in the classroom, those are the tools I would be most excited about getting in the hands of students.

[00:22:43.930] – Kylie

To add to that, I was talking with a school leader who was saying that one of their art teachers at the high school level is going to be creating a course for the following school year around different media that can be generated through AI. So it may look like, Steve, really just updating existing curriculums as well and looking for inroads and that’s one of the suggestions we have for those early entry points for embracing AI, is digital media curriculum. Anything that is related to steam curriculum, or anything related to even writing. Any areas where AI can very seamlessly be integrated, even a social studies class around where you’re talking about debate or ethics or social justice or something like that. There’s very easy ways to embed conversations around AI and get students to start thinking about algorithmic literacies that they’ll need to have in their future. One of the things that I’m really excited about, I know you had mentioned, where do you see schools that are really far ahead going? And so I can’t say that I personally know of schools like this, but one of the things that a speaker we had brought in to the IU who was on a panel for us, her name is Vicki Davis and she runs some blogs and things of her own.

[00:24:06.730] – Kylie

She had said back in August when we had her speak that students are going to need to be supervisors of AI and that they’re going to need to be managers. And I really hadn’t at that point in time made the connection. She was obviously much further than me, but I hadn’t made the connection that there are these one thing area of generative AI that’s growing is this autonomous AI. And Josh and I just have some brief experience using some of these tools ourselves, but students are going to have access to AI that’s going to act on their behalf and that’s going to be able to complete a set of goals or tasks that a student kind of assigns to them. And so one of the things I’m interested to see is how can we create self directed, self regulated learners that can manage and supervise AI. I think that’ll be really neat. And then I think that just – the things that AI can do to help people who may have an exceptionality, who may speak a different language or who may be learning a different language, I think that there are so many new opportunities about how we can learn that just excite me and feel like will make everything so much easier.

[00:25:28.420] – Kylie

Josh and I were talking about our CTE program at the Chester County Intermediate Unit and how rather than just thinking of an abstract concept of electrical engineering and how it works, we can use AI, AR, VR to help students to actually see and manipulate it in a digital space, which is really neat.

[00:25:51.510] – Steve

So I’ve been doing my pondering about whether the possibility is there for AI to really change schools and know that I speak this as a person who started teaching 50 years ago. So I’ve been through the process of change a lot of times that didn’t really lead to change. And as you were talking, Kylie, there’s a word that has been important in my work and that is getting us less focused on teaching and more focused on learning. And I think I was hearing a piece of that in your description of the power that AI could bring us. Am I on the right track there?

[00:26:48.650] – Kylie

Oh, definitely. It’s bringing to light right now, like I had mentioned earlier, a lot of new questions about teaching and learning that we maybe haven’t had to ask ourselves all that frequently, but when we are, for example, if a student, I was reading an article from a student’s perspective about using Chat GPT to work on an assignment, and the quote in the article was something along the lines of, yeah, Chat GPT smashed my assignment in 5 seconds. And so if a student can use AI to do an assignment in 5 seconds, should that be the assignment? And again, maybe we do need to put some parameters and say, actually it is really valuable for you to do this assignment? We really don’t want you to use AI. But it does bring to light questions of, hey, if AI can do this assignment, maybe we can ask our students to do an alternative assignment, which actually could be at a deeper level of thinking than we have in the past.

[00:27:52.270] – Steve

Driving the learning further.

[00:27:55.390] – Josh

I think in some ways, the boom of generative AI is similar to the start of the Covid-19 pandemic in the sense that there are these seismic shifts in the world, and it’s forcing us to really examine our practices in schools and districts that really we probably should have been looking at a long time ago but we didn’t really need know because everything was kind of steady and moving. I think, you know, it really is, Steve, like you were saying, it’s a chance to look at what school is and how we can make it better and different. And again, it’s not necessarily that AI itself is the only reason that we need to make that change, but it’s really kind of maybe forcing that change in a way it wasn’t before, and making us think about what is the purpose and value of schools in the 21st century?

[00:28:58.930] – Kylie

That’s a great example, a note of encouragement. I think initially there were questions about will AI replace jobs, will they replace teachers? And there are going to be some positions that are disrupted in industry based on all the projections I’ve read from LinkedIn and whatnot, about different jobs and different industries. But I think the one thing that makes teaching resilient is the relationships that we have with our students. And I do think though, that there can be a shift in teaching is the teacher being the sole content provider and the knowledge bearer. And if we have an AI tool that is helping a student to learn, okay, we’ll have to monitor the level of accuracy, depth, screen time, things like that, but does it free up the teacher then to really actually be more relationally connected to students as coaches, as mentors, as goal setters and encouragers? And maybe that actually provides a new opportunity that we didn’t have in the past, which I actually think could be more beneficial to our students in some ways. And I’m personally really excited about.

[00:30:20.670] – Steve

I’ve been playing with the term, “capacity builder” as the role for the teacher.

[00:30:26.910] – Kylie

What do you mean by capacity builder for…

[00:30:31.410] – Steve

Yeah, coaching the student’s capacity and certainly relationship being a large part of that. A whole lot of years back, when technology was first beginning to show up in classrooms, there was a university professor I worked with and his presentation to teachers and it goes back to influence the title I use here of the teacher having a partner with the technology. And his description was that if you had a co teacher who could do what the technology could do, then you wouldn’t choose to try and outdo them. If you had a teacher that had this expertise as your colleague, you’d find another role for you to play. And that in many ways that early sign of technology was creating that opportunity for the teacher. There’s a whole different set of roles that can be taken on here which create the stage for student learning potential to happen beyond the teacher being the source of putting the teaching out. It’s why I’ve been driven by that concept of getting more focused on learning than on teaching.

[00:31:51.770] – Kylie

Yeah, I think that has profound implications and seems like a really wise way to intentionally think about this.

[00:32:00.190] – Steve

So any last words of encouragement you’d like to lay out here for instructional coaches and school level leaders listening in?

[00:32:10.770] – Josh

I would say that it is a really exciting time to be involved in education. There’s a lot of innovation potential here with AI and even though that can be overwhelming and it can feel like too much to manage at times, it is something that is overall going to be good for students as long as we’re proactive with it. So that would be my kind of big picture message. And then within that it’s just if you’re a coach, if you’re an administrator, start think about what you’re doing in your own practice with AI and then that’ll start to help you find opportunities to bring it to students as well.

[00:32:56.590] – Kylie

I would say continue to be a lead learner. This is going to continue to change and there is too much knowledge and too much advancement happening over days with these tools and with the options for anyone to really have – I mean, if somebody is able to stay on top of all of these changes, I would like to meet them, maybe news outlets and whatnot, but it is very challenging. So I would say, try to build a professional learning community around you, whether that be in person with colleagues that you know, or even I feel like I have built a really wonderful professional learning community digitally. It could be through following folks who have different entry points into AI. It could be following Josh, myself, others, the Chester County Intermediate Unit. But really try to give yourself opportunity to learn with others in some capacity because it can be so overwhelming if you are the sole provider of kind of the AI implementation in your school or district, but know that there are others who can be thought partners. And also, I just want to mention, don’t hesitate to give us a call or send us an email or give us a follow or send us a message online.

[00:34:19.240] – Kylie

We love working with all schools around the country, around the state, so feel free to reach out to us anytime and we’re happy to be thought partners with you.

[00:34:30.400] – Steve

Perfect. We go international, too. That’s all right for you?

[00:34:32.610] – Kylie

Part of our mission at the Chester County Intermediate Unit is to reach Chester County, which is in Pennsylvania and beyond. So, yeah, we haven’t had a huge footprint at that point, internationally, taking over the globe, but we would love to work with anyone, anywhere. And we actually have gotten a lot of guidance from folks internationally, like Australia, like Josh said, this is something that we are all grappling with and is exciting because it really does unite us all.

[00:35:08.060] – Steve

So if I post your emails at the IU, best way for people to connect?

[00:35:16.490] – Kylie

Yeah. That’s the best way for them to connect with us. And then we also are posting things on the Chester County Intermediate Unit social media and our personal social medias, which we can give you a link to for the show notes as well.

[00:35:27.340] – Steve

Terrific, terrific. Well, thanks so much, folks. Really appreciate you being with us.

[00:35:33.570] – Kylie

Yeah, it was a real pleasure. Thanks for letting us get to chat with you about this.

[00:35:36.930] – Josh

It was. Thanks, Steve.

[00:35:40.210] – Steve [Outro]

Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear what you’re pondering. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn @stevebarkley or send me your questions and find my videos and blogs at barkleypd.com.