Most school leaders and teachers give a rather low rating to the value of teacher observations regarding increasing teacher effectiveness and thus student learning. Many find the process actual interfering with building a trusting learning culture in a school. Craig Randall, the author of “Trust-Based Observations: Maximizing Teaching and Learning Growth,” has developed a transformative model of teacher observation that focuses on strengths and building differentiated trusting relationships with each teacher; creating work environments where teachers feel safe, embrace taking risks, and experimenting with new practices. The result is a schoolwide culture of trust and care extending throughout the school to students. Craig shares the nine areas of pedagogy that are a focus for observing and strategies for generating trust in the process.

Find out more at: https://trustbased.com/trust-based-observation-form/

Email Craig: craig@trustbased.com

Subscribe to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast on iTunes or visit BarkleyPD.com to find new episodes!

Podcast Transcript:

[00:00:00.290] – Steve [Intro]

Welcome to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast. As instructional coaches and school leaders, you are tasked with guiding continuous teacher growth to create student success. This podcast looks to support you with strategies from experienced guests, as well as my own insights that I’ve gathered over the years. I’m thrilled to have you with us. Thanks for tuning in.

[00:00:29.630] – Steve

Trust-based Observations. Joining our podcast today is Craig Randall, the author of, “Trust-based Observations: Maximizing Teaching and Learning Growth.” Craig has been a school counselor, teacher, coach, and principal. He has developed a transformative model of teacher observation that focuses on strengths and building differentiated trusting relationships with each teacher. He does this in order to create environments where teachers feel safe, embrace taking risks, and experimenting with new practices. The results are improved teaching and learning and the development of a school-wide culture of trust and care that extends to the students. Welcome, Craig.

[00:01:22.460] – Craig Randall

Thanks, Steve. Happy to be here.

[00:01:24.400] – Steve

I’m excited to have you here. The initial conversation that you and I had has shared with me that we have a lot of similar thinking, so I’m looking forward to our conversation. I’m wondering, for starters, if you would just give people a quick definition of trust-based observation before we jump into it in greater detail later.

[00:01:46.110] – Craig Randall

Sure. Maybe the elevator speech, as they say, or something. But really, the way we’ve been doing observations for the last 25 years, research shows it’s literally not improving teaching, and research shows it causes harm and makes teachers less confident in their practice. And if we want collective teacher efficacy and improvement, we shouldn’t be doing something that’s making people feel less confident in their practice. So accidentally, not on purpose, like, aha, I know how to solve this problem, I developed this new way of doing teacher observations. It started in my principal supervision class where we do 20-minute observations. They’re unannounced. We see them once every three to four weeks. Teachers actually like that they’re unannounced when they know it’s strength-based because they don’t have to worry. And we have nine just core areas of pedagogy we look at. And then the real magic is the next day in the reflective conversation, where we work diligently to build trust with teachers so they do feel safe taking risks. And it sounds counterintuitive during the reflective conversation because we’re so used to teachers being fearful and worrying about their score. But we eliminate the rating of pedagogy, we focus on strengths, ask them about their practice to start instead of telling.

[00:03:05.980] – Craig Randall

And it makes a dramatic difference in the way teachers respond. And it makes them really eager to try new things and grow like they were when they were young teachers, again, some of those that maybe have become a little more set in their ways. That’s my brief definition of trust-based observations.

[00:03:23.710] – Steve

That’s great. And as I listen to you and I look at your background, I’m guessing that there has to be some connection between being a counselor, a teacher, and a coach, going along with your principalship. Some combination of that that led to your development of the process.

[00:03:47.120] – Craig Randall

I think definitively the counselor part. I think at the core, I’ve always been caring and wanting to make a difference. I think I’ve always been kind and people… I remember my first serious I’ve been saying, I’m so nice, which I cringed at, but I embrace it now. And so I think that factor is into it for sure, just who I am. And I think I have strong emotional intelligence, and I think just understanding how people work. I think my teacher background in terms of my own experiences, even with good observations and things that I felt were wrong with it. If I’m being dead honest about the coaching, I cringe at the way I coached. I was way more of a yeller than I would be now. It was so antitrust-based observations. I wish I could go back and relive that with everything I know now about trust-based observations.

[00:04:41.370] – Steve

That’s interesting.

[00:04:41.840] – Craig Randall

That’s my guilty admission.

[00:04:47.700] – Steve

Cool. Well, in my coaching work, I’m real big on the connection between conversation and reflection. And since I’m hearing that alot from you, that that’s what creates what I label as, insights and learning. I’m guessing that in your work, asking and listening are pretty critical.

[00:05:13.040] – Craig Randall

We talked about that reflective conversation piece and that being so key to it. But even then, you have to set the condition so people feel comfortable talking. And Renee Brown talks about the connection between vulnerability, trust, and risk-taking. And she says, vulnerability isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If it’s too high, it’s almost a warning signal similar to the amygdala. And she suggests that the way we lower vulnerability so people feel comfortable taking risks is by building trust. And she says that we do that by the little trust building actions that we take. And she has a great analogy thinking about a jar because trust takes time. And every little action we do is putting a marble in that jar. And that marble has to fill, that jar has to fill in order for teachers to feel safe. Just before we get to the questions, there’s just a couple of little things I think are an important piece because they tie into them feeling comfortable with the questions. So we have the reflective conversation, the first marble, as we call it, in the teacher’s room because they feel safer in their own room as opposed to our office.

[00:06:25.930] – Craig Randall

We always say, whether you’re 7, 17 or 37, getting called to the principal’s office feels like getting called to the principal’s office. We think it’s going to be bad, even if it’s going to be something good. Then the next thing that we do when we get to the room, the next marble is we ask permission. “Hey, is now a good time?” They always say yes, but that little courtesy, it builds trust. The next marble is we sit beside you, not across from you, because it makes you more comfortable. The next marble is we share the form with you. Then the next marble before we ask the questions, and then I’ll get into the questions next. I know it’s a long answer to your question, is is that we tell them what the goal of trust-based observations is. We just say that the goal is for me and everyone else that does observation, to build enough trust with you and everyone else in the building so that any one of us can come into your classroom, observe you, see you’re trying something new, and even though it’s highly unlikely, have that thing you’re trying be a train wreck, but as opposed to a traditional observation where you’d be freaking out that this was happening today on observation day of all days.

[00:07:27.060] – Craig Randall

You wouldn’t be worried because you already know the next day, when I come to your room, I’m going to say, “Steve, I love it that you were trying something new. That’s how we get better.” It’s not always going to work the way we plan, but trying is the key thing. Then we just say, because when we’ve created those conditions, you and everyone else will persist in taking risk, and that’s where we’re going to see the growth. And now getting to the questions…

[00:07:48.460] – Steve

Before you go to the questions, Craig, you hit on something that I haven’t found a lot of other people talking about that I discovered accidentally. And that is in my coaching work, I’m doing a pre-conference with the person before I go to do the coaching. And I made that big discovery difference it made when I sat next to the person instead of across the table, and I’m right-handed, so I have them seated on my right, and I have my notepad between the two of us because I found I just can’t be very good at coaching if I’m not taking notes. And it’s not even so much that I go back and look at the notes, but the fact that I write them down, make it stick in my head. But the difference, when they were sitting next to me and they were looking at the notes I was writing down, and when I’m out doing training, I’ll stop a lot of people in the middle and I’ll have them just move the furniture and start again. And they report back on the big difference that that communication piece makes.

[00:08:57.170] – Craig Randall

Well, and look, you’re also demonstrating transparency because you’re letting them see the notes, too. So it’s not hiding anything with them. Look, if we think about teachers and their sense or desire for autonomy, it’s super strong. I mean, the classic, just let me close my door and do my own thing. I mean, we all know that, and there’s truth in that. But I think they also want support. But I’m going to draw an analogy, and I don’t think it’s a bad analogy, is that compare that to a teenager in their sense of autonomy, right? Because it’s developmental that we need to I’m independent. And I’m drawing a connection between that and sitting beside someone. My daughter, 14 to 17, she was a textbook definition of sullen teenager, and she wouldn’t talk about anything. It was the proverbial pulling teeth. Somehow, though, we’re sitting in the car and she’s in the front seat beside me, and all of a sudden, she’ll start talking. There’s something about it, whether it’s a teenager or a teacher, or really anyone that factors into that.

[00:10:04.120] – Steve

Cool. Go ahead with what you wanted to…

[00:10:06.230] – Craig Randall

Okay. We start with two questions. The first question we ask is, what were you doing pedagogically speaking? And then we add, what strategies were you using? Because pedagogy doesn’t ring necessarily with everyone. So what strategies were you using to help students learn? But even then, we add a trust marble to that question. And we just say, we definitely want to hear about the 20 minutes you were in there. But we all know sometimes when we get observed, you’ll think, you came in now, you just missed the best part, or you left right before the best part. And we always just say, if that happened, please tell us that, too. And it’s amazing how that little statement makes teachers go, “oh, thank you.” That builds trust. We take down their answers, and we actually work to reframe their answers into the pedagogical language of the form, which makes them more purposeful. Teachers actually like that you reframe their language, by the way, which sounds like something they wouldn’t like, but they do. Then we share the answers back, which also demonstrates that we’ve been actively listening to what they’re saying. Then we ask if there’s anything else.

[00:11:08.410] – Craig Randall

It’s pretty amazing when we ask if there’s anything else right after we’ve shared it, how that will bring more up. The second question we ask is, if you had the chance to reteach the lesson, what, if anything, might you have done differently? And we have another trust marble for that. And we just say, look, teaching is hard. Sometimes when we teach, we nail it. When that happens, we want to celebrate it. And I never want you to feel like you have to manufacture and answer that question just because I’m asking. At the same time, though, we know most of the time we tend to think, oh, I wish I would have, or, oh, I know next time I’m going to, and then we ask the question again, and we take down their answers again, and we share them back again. We think this last little bit is a reverse trust marvel in the jar because this is about what you might have done differently. We don’t ask, “Is there anything else like we do in the first question?” Because we I think if we do, they’ll think, “Oh, what did I do wrong in that one?” and that will inhibit trust building.

[00:12:03.030] – Craig Randall

But those two questions and starting by asking and saying, really in essence, saying, I value you as a professional and what you have to say that matters to me, it changes the tone of the whole conversation, especially when we follow up by sharing all the strengths that we saw afterwards.

[00:12:21.670] – Steve

I love the focus on what did I miss before and after. My greatest despise was districts who were trying to work on teacher evaluation being identical, principle to principle. I’d get this line, “If you didn’t see it, it didn’t happen.”

[00:12:48.130] – Craig Randall

It drives me crazy. There are districts out there now where brand new teachers, they get observed. If you don’t see it, instead of a brand new teacher spending their extra their time doing planning, they are required to document and show how I do this thing that you didn’t see. What value or good comes from something like that?

[00:13:13.460] – Steve

In our earlier conversation and some time I spent on your website, I know that you work around nine areas of pedagogy. I wonder if you’d talk a little bit about how you arrived at those as a focus.

[00:13:31.930] – Craig Randall

Yeah. I’ll tell you a little story about that, actually. We scripted it first, and that’s what my mentor taught me, and so that’s what we did. And along the way, people would say, But how do you know what you’re seeing or good teaching? I was like, I just know. And so there were some prods along the way. And then I worked with a superintendent that I’m not always the easiest person because of my passion to…I’m not everyone’s cup of tea, maybe I should say, because of my passion. I was not this person’s cup of tea, and I won’t even say undeservedly so. But she had her mind made up about me and would do little things to, I would say, get me. One of them that she did was she said, “Look, there’s no evidence that scripting does anything to improve teaching and learning. So either you adopt Danielson or Mrizzano or create your own.” I didn’t know what I know now about the harm that rating pedagogy causes. But just intuitively, it felt bad. And so that actually started the creation of the form. And the assistant principals I was with, we created it.

[00:14:42.500] – Craig Randall

And I also knew really long lists were bad. And we just ended up with these nine areas of pedagogy. And then at the next school I was at, we refined them. And just a group of educators got together and talked about what’s core? What are the most core areas? Because you can’t cover everything. And really, that’s what they are. Do you want me to name them or not?

[00:15:03.380] – Steve

Yeah, go ahead.

[00:15:04.550] – Craig Randall

It’s learning targets or learning intentions or learning objective or the essential questions, whatever language you want to have. One of the other things, by the way, that we have sitting next to that is we always do a student interview where we ask the student, what are they supposed to be learning? Why does it have value in the real world? And then that meta question, how do you know when you’ve learned it? We’ve got that. We’ve got teacher-student report relationship, classroom behavior management. We have cooperative learning, and we have working memory, cognitive load capacity. We have higher-order thinking and questioning skills. We have formative assessment or checks for understanding, and descriptive progress feedback, which those two tend to go together. We have differentiation. Then we actually have, it’s not an area of pedagogy, but we subdivided into the eight main ways that we help teachers learn. It’s called the learning principles. It’s a little pyramid, and we track where you’re at and show you where you spend your time in areas that are more receptive or active. Things like lecture or direct instruction, audiovisual, demonstration and modeling, reading, which could be receptive or active, depending on how it happens, class discussion, which could be the same way.

[00:16:18.530] – Craig Randall

Pair team discussion, learning by doing and teaching others. And so that altogether creates the form. It’s really visual. Teachers love the visual nature of it, and it makes them really reflect. Just real quickly, when we finish around, when we’re training a school, we always ask the teachers, “Hey, what do you think of this new model? And what do you want to talk about in comparison to others?” They say two things, primarily. One, it’s so great to have my bucket filled with strengths because they’re not used to that. But the number one thing they say is, I’m already thinking about what to get better at without even saying anything. And somehow the positive nature combined with that visual nature of the form makes their wheels start spinning.

[00:17:01.640] – Steve

So does the visual nature of the form cause them to reflect on things that maybe you didn’t even address, that it’s there in front of them?

[00:17:09.910] – Craig Randall

It really does. So one of the other trust marbles that we say is we always just say the absence of is not a negative. So if we didn’t fill something in, it just means we didn’t happen to see it or it wasn’t appropriate to that lesson. But the form is highly detailed. Actually, when people first see it, it becomes quite daunting to them at first glance. But when we train you, we do mastery training. So by the end of the week, you filled out that more than 12 or 14 times, so it’s nothing. And so they’ll see maybe their questions only went up to analyze. So evaluate, synthesize, or create weren’t filled in. And it could be perfectly appropriate to that lesson, but they’ll start going, “Oh, I need to start adding those questions into my practice.” Yeah, it just… But for sure, that only happens because of the positive nature of it, so they don’t feel threatened, so then they can self-reflect. If I’m feeling defensive, I’m not going to allow myself to do that. So it all ties together.

[00:18:03.090] – Steve

So my experience would say that most administrators would find the process you’re bringing to them substantially more rewarding than the traditional observation evaluation. But I’m wondering, how do you address the time? I sense you’re looking at people spending substantially more time in classrooms observing than…

[00:18:29.760] – Craig Randall

I don’t think so, really. But it’s a great question. I’m going to say a few things. It is way more rewarding. No one likes to put checkbox of numbers. We all know if I have to give somebody a number that’s below proficient or a word that’s below proficient, that the teacher is not going to appreciate that. I don’t like to have to say that. It gives me anxiety even leading the conversation, knowing that I have to share those numbers with somebody. When I don’t have to do that, and then when my teachers respond so positively, it’s not a commerce for us the first time through to get tears of joy because it’s so foreign to have that. So all of a sudden, it’s easier to do observations when they’re fun versus the way we’ve had before.

[00:19:11.860] – Steve

Even proficient doesn’t fly.

[00:19:14.060] – Craig Randall

No, I’ve had numerous people that we’ve trained say, “You know when I realized I can’t do this anymore is when my best teacher cried because I gave them proficient.” I’m like, something is wrong with our system when that happened. And it’s not on a teacher, it’s that system, and it’s well-intended. They’re all well-intended. I don’t have anything bad to say about their intentions. So what I will say is, I was talking to Kim Marshall, who does teacher observation himself. And he was telling me that in Chicago public schools, to do one round of Danielson with the pre-observation conference all the time, then I need to go into the write-up afterwards, doing the observation all the time I need to write up afterwards, having the post-observation conference, and then the final write-up takes six hours for one formal observation. If we’re saying we have a 20-minute observation and a 20-minute reflective conversation, that’s saying we can do nine observations and reflective conversations in the time that it takes to do one. So with our normal load that we’ve got in the school, there’s exceptions, but you can really see somebody once every three to four weeks and spend between 40 and 80 minutes a day.

[00:20:36.460] – Craig Randall

And so altogether, if I’m saying that’s five hours a week out of my time, but this is the first thing I’m doing that truly moves the dial. And at the same time, it creates a culture of trust where my teachers are happy. And in a time of teacher’s shortage, my teachers want to stay and my retention efforts are better. It’s not really more time, but getting in the visit is always hard. You have to make yourself do it. It’s like working out.

[00:21:06.030] – Steve

I’m wondering, schools that have instructional coaches and teacher leaders – you have ways that you encourage the administrators to tap that as a resource?

[00:21:19.210] – Craig Randall

Yeah. And obviously, we see schools all over the world that have all kinds of different models. In the UK, there’s much more of that mid-level, mid-tier leadership. And we have schools that have instructional coaches and don’t. And I never dictate what somebody should do. It’s their building. But when you have instructional coaches, if you’ve got mid-tier people, you can have them do some of the observations, too. And so it’s up to you what you want to do. But that’s definitely how some people choose to do it. Some people say, but no, they’re content experts. It’s not for me to say. What I will say is one of the other core elements, because trust takes time to fill that jar with marbles, is that we don’t begin to offer a suggestion until the fourth visit. There’s exceptions if you’re a brand new teacher in your classroom management is a trampler, or if you saw something super egregious. But when we offer suggestions to teachers, traditionally, what we do in the role of the traditional observation is tell somebody to get better at something, oftentimes without even telling them what to do to get better, or perhaps at best by sending them an article and saying, here you go.

[00:22:27.410] – Craig Randall

I just say, when in the world would we, as a teacher, say to a third grader, Hey, those multiplication facts need work. Here’s a times table. I’ll see you in a month. We would never do that. There’s an astounding hypocrisy between the way we expect teachers to give feedback, suggestive growth feedback to students in the way that we tend to do it as observers. And so when we offer suggestions, first we ask permission to offer suggestions. It’s a little courtesy. They always say yes, but it builds trust and makes them more willing to not feel like strategic compliance, but own it and be a part of it. But the way we guide you through that process is way more like we want teachers to do with students or way more like an instructional coach does, except that we’re offering the suggestion. And so that piece there, a principal can do that. But when you have an instructional coach, I think that’s a perfect place to hand over or start to work in collaboration then to let that instructional coach be able to do that piece as well.

[00:23:30.140] – Steve

So working with an instructional coach in between the sessions of the principal coming back could create a great opportunity when the principal comes back and does the next observation that the teacher has been able to implement to change because of the support of the instructional coach.

[00:23:48.480] – Craig Randall

For sure. And I’ll even just guide you really quickly through what that process looks like. Let’s just say the area that I wanted you to work on, Steve, was adding reflection processing activity in the working memory cognitive load section. At the end of the fourth visit, I would ask permission to offer that suggestion. I would then say, great, and I’d probably have an electronic and a paper copy. One of the cool things about the observation form is it’s a professional development resource with hyperlinks. So the tools are right at your fingers for growth or at your fingertips for your keyboard, I guess. And so there’s one article on there that lists 70 different structures that could be used for these little reflection processing activities. And I’d say, Steve, choose six or eight of them that you think are really great. And then we’re going to say, well, great. If you were just going to try this in one of your classes tomorrow, which one? Let’s pull up that lesson. So your kids are high schoolers. Their cognitive load is 10 minutes. Where do you think there’s fairly natural places in there that we could stop and build on that reflection processing activity?

[00:24:50.690] – Craig Randall

Great. Which one of these six or eight areas would you want to add into this one? And then we say, okay, so when we teach it tomorrow, I could model it for it, we could co-teach it. You could teach and I can watch and give suggested feedback in the moment or later. And then we go and do that. And then we have another follow-up conversation where we ask, what went well? What would you like to keep working on? And then how can I build that? What can I do to support you? So by the time I see you next month, that’s built into your practice fully. You can hand that over to the instructional coach, and really, that’s their wheelhouse, is all that stuff. So in some ways, if you’re blessed enough to have those resources, that’s the perfect place to combine that. And as we’re sometimes with the instructional coach and the principal relationship, the teacher can feel like, oh, you’re trying to manipulate or work me, and you’re not really having my best interest at heart. But when you build that trust in there, it changes that format completely. So it’s like, oh, great, let’s do it. Come on, Steve, help me out.

[00:25:51.960] – Steve

Yeah. So one question emerged as I looked through your material. I was wondering, are there ways that you have to run into a contractual or legal issue about teacher evaluation when a system has adopted what you’re doing?

[00:26:13.640] – Craig Randall

Sometimes. Not when we’re an independent or international, or private, or religious schools. But when we’re talking in the US, after Race to the Top, federal funding got tied to stricter teacher evaluation laws. It’s complicated. It’s a long process process, and my goal is to change legislation. We think when we get one state changed, it’ll start to roll over. Sometimes you have to finesse, which, look, I think it’s ridiculous, but what do we do in the meantime if I want to make a difference? Different places do different things. We have a district in the Bronx, a school in the Bronx that we work with, and they’re still required to do a modified Danielson. So they keep the Danielson form open. And when they feel it’s a really good one that ticks all the boxes, boom, now it’s done. Some of them just say, hey, let’s just make an agreement. We’re just going to give everybody proficient. We’re going to put them in the drawing now. We’re going to do what we want to do. Some of them… So there’s like years where you’re on the… Where you get to choose what you want to do for five years and then every six year.

[00:27:21.130] – Craig Randall

And so for the five years, when you’re doing that, they’ll just say, okay, let’s just use professionalism so it’s not anything related to pedagogy. Then on the six year, Look, we just got to do it. Another district we work with says, okay, so the year we have to do this, I’ll be your observer for the TBO, but somebody else will be your evaluation thing. And look, we’re just doing what we have to do. And I think it’s silly, but I don’t know what to do in the meantime.

[00:27:45.100] – Steve

I worked with an administrator years ago. His goal was to have all the teacher evaluations done by the end of October.

[00:27:52.290] – Craig Randall

Oh, yeah.

[00:27:53.140] – Steve

And then he’d spend the rest of the year working in growth.

[00:27:57.340] – Craig Randall

Okay. Yeah, in a positive way. Because that works the other way, too.

[00:28:02.980] – Steve

Yeah, that was his way to build the trust with the teacher. You know from October on, it’s coaching because your evaluation has already been done and put away. I’ve worked with an administrator who had teachers fill in their evaluation and come and meet with them if he agreed they were done and put away. But in other words, there were ways to legalistically meet that requirement, to release people where they had to go.

[00:28:27.070] – Craig Randall

But I do believe in long term, we’re going to get this change. I mean, the research says the Gates Foundation and the Annenberg study say it’s not improving teaching and learning. We have all this information, and I’m not sure a lot of legislators know that. Change is hard, but we’re going to keep plugging away and plugging away until we get one lot changed.

[00:28:49.240] – Steve

What was going through my head as I was asking you the question, and I hadn’t thought about this before, but it’s almost like the districts that moved to a proficiency scales for students to meet standards, but they’re in a district that requires A, B, C, D grades. So they get to the end and they have to come up with some calculation.

[00:29:14.910] – Craig Randall

Yeah.

[00:29:15.800] – Steve

Turn a grade in, but it’s a workaround.

[00:29:19.310] – Craig Randall

There’s similarities in that for sure.

[00:29:22.500] – Steve

Yeah. So I know that you got a dream and a passion here. You want to just close this out with with where you’re hoping to go with what you’re looking to make happen?

[00:29:36.070] – Craig Randall

I want safe spaces for teachers to be able to take risk and experiment. Look, I’ve been really lucky. John Hattie, Michael Fowland, Carol Dweck, some pretty big name people have endorsed trust-based observations. And John Hattie says that Trust-based Observations is collective teacher efficacy in action. We know that’s the highest effect size by a lot. We know that teaching is hard, hard work, so much harder, even post-COVID, with the increase in behaviors that we have, and let alone managing electronics and all of that. And so we have to honor that, and we have to value teachers. And if we really, really want to see growth, that our job is to prepare students to be successful adults and do everything in our power for that to happen. I do not have all the answers for how to make education better. I think most teachers combined have all the answers. But that’s only going to work if they feel like they’re in a space where they can experiment and say, hey, I got this idea. Might work, might not. And so my goal is to make this the way really around the world. I know it sounds silly that we do observations.

[00:30:51.170] – Craig Randall

I want this to be the predominant way because it’s better. Teachers love it. They feel happier, they feel supportive, they grow more. That’s my goal.

[00:31:02.200] – Steve

And kids do better with a happy teacher for sure.

[00:31:04.690] – Craig Randall

That, too.

[00:31:08.140] – Steve

Well, Craig, I was looking for our conversation, and it lived up to any expectation that I had. I really appreciate you joining me. What’s the best way for listeners to follow up with you, stay on top of the work that you’re doing?

[00:31:24.460] – Craig Randall

Yeah. I mean, there’s the trustbased.com website, and you can contact me on that, or you can email me at, craig@trustbased.com. But all the social media sites, LinkedIn and everything, my handle is trustbasedcraig or you can look up Craig Randall and find me and see my posts or whatever we’re doing. I also have a podcast called, “20 Minutes of Teaching Brilliance: On the Road with Trust Based Observations,” where when I’m on the road training, we’ll see teachers doing amazing stuff. And I interview them to talk about their amazing stuff so teachers can learn from each other, too. So that’s another avenue for people learn.

[00:32:01.400] – Steve

We’ll put your website and email in the lead-in to the podcast to make it easier for folks.

[00:32:08.750] – Craig Randall

Thanks, Steve.

[00:32:09.190] – Steve

Thanks so much.

[00:32:10.430] – Craig Randall

Thanks, Steve. I appreciate it.

[00:32:10.880] – Steve

Take care.

[00:32:11.750] – Craig Randall

You, too. Bye-bye.

[00:32:14.550] – Steve [Outro]

Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear what you’re pondering. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn at Steve Barkley, or send me your questions and find my videos and blogs at barkleypd.com.