Schools aren’t experienced through mission statements or curriculum guides. They’re experienced one interaction at a time.
- What are students experiencing?
- What are teachers experiencing?
- How do we know?
Coaches can help teachers and leaders gather evidence about experiences that often go unnoticed because they have become routine – or even unconscious.
Watch Marcela Andreas Diaz Revultas’ video here.
Find Tim Montalvo’s blog here.
Subscribe to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast on iTunes or visit BarkleyPD.com to find new episodes!
Podcast Transcript:
[00:00:00.340] – Steve [Intro]
Welcome to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast. As instructional coaches and school leaders, you are tasked with guiding continuous teacher growth to create student success. This podcast looks to support you with strategies from experienced guests, as well as my own insights that I’ve gathered over the years. I’m thrilled to have you with us. Thanks for tuning in.
[00:00:29.820] – Steve
3 questions that can change your school. As schools open their doors this year, we should all be asking 3 important questions. The first 2 are: What are students experiencing? And just as importantly: What are teachers experiencing? Schools aren’t experienced through mission statements or curriculum guides.
[00:01:01.040] – Steve
They’re experienced one interaction at a time. Tim Montavlo, an assistant principal at Fox Lane Middle School in Bedford, New York, and an adjunct professor at Iona University and the College of Westchester, suggested in a blog that it’s our interactions with students that shape their sense of belonging their learning, and their success beyond any programs that we implement. While programs and structures can help, students do not experience school as a framework. They experience it as a series of moments. So what are students experiencing?
[00:01:52.310] – Steve
Well, they experience the greeting at a classroom door. They experience how adults respond when they make mistakes. They experience whether effort is noticed, whether questions are welcomed, and whether they are treated as learners or as problems to be managed. As I reflected on Tim’s message, I found myself asking the second question: What are teachers experiencing? The importance of that question was reinforced for me on a video clip by Principal, Marcela Andreas-Díaz Revueltas, who stated that as school leaders, your best ability is your availability over time.
[00:02:42.510] – Steve
She reasoned that trust isn’t built through grand gestures, but through small, consistent, day-to-day actions. Just as students don’t experience school through programs, teachers don’t experience leadership through mission statements, improvement plans, or opening day speeches. They experience leadership as a series of moments. They experience whether their principal is available when they need to think through a challenge. They experience whether a coach listens before offering suggestions.
[00:03:22.860] – Steve
They experience whether questions are welcomed or viewed as resistance. They experience whether mistakes become opportunities for learning or occasions for judgment. They experience whether their professionalism is trusted, whether their efforts are noticed, and whether they leave conversations with greater confidence or greater uncertainty.
[00:03:51.140] – Steve
Principal Diaz created a strategy to increase her availability. She calls it Principal on Wheels. With her laptop on a rolling cart, she positions herself in well-traveled hallways where teachers and students find easier access to her for those short conversations that are unlikely to occur when they require a trip to the principal’s office. She suggests that the key is for staff to feel seen and listened to. Staff want to be asked about their families.
[00:04:30.870] – Steve
They want leaders to know when they’re struggling, and they want to celebrate with them when they are successful. You’ll find the links to Tim and Marcella’s work in this podcast lead-in. The symmetry here strikes me. Students experience teachers. Teachers experience leaders and coaches.
[00:04:55.910] – Steve
And those experiences shape beliefs. And beliefs shape behaviors. Students who consistently experience trust, challenge, and belonging are more likely to engage deeply in learning. Teachers who consistently experience trust, support, and professional respect are more likely to create those same conditions for their students. We began with two questions: What are students experiencing?
[00:05:31.780] – Steve
And what are teachers experiencing? Let’s add a third question: How do we know? This may be a very valuable place for instructional coaches to contribute. Coaches can help teachers and leaders gather evidence about experiences that often go unnoticed because they’ve become routine or even unconscious. But there’s an important condition here.
[00:06:04.130] – Steve
Feedback is most powerful when it has been invited. When observations are requested, they are more likely to generate curiosity and reflection. When they are unsolicited, they may generate defensiveness and reduce future opportunities for coaching. What might a conversation with the teacher sound like that sets the stage for the collection of observations and reflections? Consider this conversation.
[00:06:41.520] – Steve
Teacher: I’ve been thinking about your question, “What are students experiencing?” Most of my class seems authentically engaged, but there are 3 students I’m wondering about. They are all reading below grade level, and I’m not sure what school feels like for them. Coach: tell me about them. Teacher: they participate when we’re doing hands-on activities in small groups, but when the activities begin to need reading and writing, they become much, much quieter. I’m wondering if they’re beginning to think at those times, this classroom isn’t really for someone like me.
[00:07:29.160] – Steve
Coach: That’s an important question. If we wanted to understand their experience better, what might we look for?
[00:07:38.880] – Steve
Teacher: I’d like to know whether they’re finding ways to participate that I’m perhaps overlooking. Do they volunteer less? Do they wait for others to answer? Are they avoiding taking risk? Are there other moments when they actually seem confident?
[00:08:04.490] – Steve
Coach: I could observe with my focus on those 3 students and the experiences they’re having during a lesson. Maybe I’d create a chart with a column for each student and capture as much as I can of their words, actions, and interactions. Teacher: Exactly. I don’t just want to know if they’re completing their work.
[00:08:29.900] – Steve
I want to understand whether they feel they belong as learners in our classroom. Coach: Well, afterwards, you could add my observations to your own. My notes may help you notice things that are difficult to see while you’re teaching. Then we can explore what those combined observations might be telling us about those students’ experiences. One of the things I find especially valuable about this type of coaching conversation is that the teacher doesn’t wait until after the lesson to extend her reflections.
[00:09:10.980] – Steve
The questions that the teachers generated actually guide their own noticing while they’re teaching. The coach brings another set of eyes and ears, but the teacher is already observing, wondering, and collecting her own evidence. I believe that is empowering. It strengthens teachers’ sense of professionalism because they’re leading the inquiry into their own practice rather rather than receiving someone else’s conclusions.
[00:09:45.420] – Steve
Let’s look at what a conversation might sound like if a principal reached out to a coach to gain feedback to help answer the question, “What are teachers experiencing?” When principals seek coaching from instructional coaches, they communicate that coaching is not something done to teachers. It’s a way that everyone in the organization learns. They also strengthen the coaching culture by modeling the coachability that they hope to see in staff. Principal: I’ve been thinking about your question, what are teachers experiencing? I’d like to understand that better.
[00:10:31.800] – Steve
It has me pondering. I know what I hope they’re experiencing. I just don’t know if they are. Coach: Tell me more. Principal: I want teachers to experience me as available and approachable.
[00:10:49.880] – Steve
I want them to feel comfortable asking for help, sharing ideas, telling me when they’re struggling. I’d like my evaluator role to be the least important part of how they experience my leadership. I’d rather they see me as a coach and a cheerleader for their success.
[00:11:14.070] – Steve
Coach: If we wanted to understand their experience better, what might we look for?
[00:11:21.090] – Steve
Principal: I’m wondering if during the next few weeks you could be extra observant for me. As you’re working with teachers in meetings and classrooms around the building, could you notice experiences that may be invisible to me because I’m part of them? Do teachers feel they can approach me with questions? Are they seeking me out when I enter a classroom or a hallway? What seems to happen?
[00:11:53.410] – Steve
Is it possible that I appear rushed? Do teachers seem uncomfortable sharing concerns or asking for support? Are there moments when I unintentionally communicate something different from what I intend?
[00:12:12.160] – Steve
Coach: So you’d like me to pay attention to what I see you saying and doing, what I observe teachers saying and doing in response, and comments I hear from teachers throughout the week that you wouldn’t normally have an opportunity to hear. Principal: Exactly. Then afterwards, I’ll add your observations to my reflections. Your observations should help me better understand what teachers are experiencing and perhaps raise new questions for me. Coach: I’m thinking of organizing my observations into 3 categories: What I observed you saying and doing, what I heard and observed from staff at that time, and then comments that I hear from teachers throughout the week that you wouldn’t normally have the opportunity to hear.
[00:13:11.290] – Steve
Principal: That sounds right on. Thank you. Coach: One thing I’d want to be careful about is protecting teachers’ confidentiality. Principal: Absolutely. I’m not looking for you to report on teachers.
[00:13:29.140] – Steve
I’m asking you to help me understand the experience teachers are having in our school. If I want teachers to be open to feedback and reflection, I need to model that myself. Notice what happened in both these coaching conversations. Neither the teacher nor the principal asked the coach to evaluate effectiveness or recommend solutions. Instead, they invited the coach to help them understand other people’s experiences.
[00:14:05.510] – Steve
In one conversation, it was the experience of 3 students. In the other, it was the experience of the staff. In both cases, the coach’s role was to gather observations that the teacher or principal could combine with their own observations and reflections. The goal wasn’t to reach conclusions. The goal was to generate better questions, deeper reflection, and a clear understanding of the experiences that shape the learning and the culture of the classroom and the school.
[00:14:45.570] – Steve
As you begin this school year, I encourage you to carry these three questions with you: What are students experiencing? What are teachers experiencing? And how do we know?
[00:15:00.550] – Steve
When we become intentional about answering those questions, we move beyond assumptions, we begin creating schools where the experiences we hope people are having become the experiences they actually have. Too often, we don’t intentionally create the right experiences. We unintentionally create some experiences. Coaching can help to make the invisible visible. Because in the end, schools aren’t remembered by the programs they adopted.
[00:15:44.010] – Steve
They’re remembered by how people experience them. Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear how you are experiencing barkleypd.com, blogs and podcasts. Drop me a note.
[00:16:04.360] – Steve [Outro]
Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear what you’re pondering. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn @SteveBarkley or send me your questions and find my videos and blogs at barkleypd.com.
