Angie Freese, author of Meant for More: Real Talk About Classrooms Built on Dignity, Authenticity, and Connection, explores her belief in educators’ potential. She supports educators to create classrooms where students can be brave, assured, and confident in their learning pathway. In this podcast she highlights authenticity, connection, curiosity, voice, resilience, and grace.
Find Angie’s book, Meant for More here.
Email Angie: angie@meantformorementum.com
Connect with Angie on LinkedIn.
Subscribe to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast on iTunes or visit BarkleyPD.com to find new episodes!
Podcast Transcript:
[00:00:00.210] – Steve [Intro]
Hello, and welcome to the Teacher Edition of Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud. Teaching is a complex and rewarding journey, and I’m always eager to explore the many ways teachers engage students in their learning. This podcast is dedicated to supporting you, the teacher, as you inspire and guide your students. Thanks for joining me. I’m excited you’re here.
[00:00:29.880] – Steve
Classrooms built on dignity, authenticity, and connection. I’m excited to have Angie Freese join our podcast today. Her experiences as a classroom teacher, building and district-level administrator, and as a parent have led to her recent book, “Meant for More.” Angie has worked with countless educators in the areas of assessment, RTI, and inclusive practices. She focuses on empowering educators to gain sustainable growth and performance for all students. Welcome, Angie.
[00:01:11.370] – Angie
Thank you, Steve. Happy to be here today.
[00:01:13.960] – Steve
Angie, as you spent time in building administrative positions and district-level roles, what insights emerged and joined those experiences that you had previously built from your teaching experiences?
[00:01:29.250] – Angie
One of the most important things I’ve learned over the last few years is that there are brilliant people stuck in archaic systems. Within our organizations, we either have the knowledge and skills and mindsets that we need to pursue excellence with each other and our students, or we know where to access learning that will get us there. So the brilliance is in the space already. Oftentimes, however, I’m invited into schools or districts because someone has identified something that is wrong. And despite that awareness, interestingly enough, in the very systems that would benefit most from creativity and innovation, the boundaries of those systems are tighter and more rigid, and that paralysis is real. And so oftentimes people feel stuck or confused or exhausted so we can’t wonder why people are leaving our profession when we’re not intentionally about how we support people to truly feel connected to the mission and give them the tools they need to be successful.
[00:02:38.280] – Steve
I’m almost hearing unlocking potential of teachers that – it’s there. And It’s been stymied, perhaps, and you work to unlock it?
[00:02:50.350] – Angie
I do my best. And one of the things that I offer in these learning spaces is that we are a fierce and bold and brave cohort as educators. We are poised and ready to be of service to the students and families that they serve. And my opportunity and my partnership with folks is truly to be able to facilitate the necessary space to invite in some refreshed thinking, ideas, and perhaps even momentum to help our amazing educator cohort just reclaim the dignity in our profession, to be fair, to mobilize our shared efforts, to actually realize what seems to be this elusive vision of creating access and opportunity and growth for each and every learner.
[00:03:46.140] – Steve
Well, there’s a quote in your book that caught my attention, so I wanted to ask you to expand on it a little bit. You wrote, “Remember, you have permission to be exactly where you are. My ask is that you just not be complacent staying there.”
[00:04:05.280] – Angie
Yeah. Well, my first assumption, always, is that people are doing the best they can with the information and the resources that they have. But if we still aren’t getting the results that we want, we must choose to learn and to move and to support each other in that move forward. So the permission piece comes from, of course, we’re in the space that we’re in because of the learning and the experiences and the opportunities and the conversations that we’ve had. But if we’re still not feeling like we’re getting the results that we desire, we have to choose. And I’m real intentional in that word about choice. We have to choose to rise to this level of conversation and awareness awareness and knowledge access so that we can truly do the things that we were meant to do.
[00:05:07.810] – Steve
In your book, “Meant for More: Real Talk About Classrooms Built on Dignity, Authenticity, and Connection,” you share six key focus points. I’m wondering if we could take those one at a time and give us a little more detail around each one. The first one you identify is embracing authenticity.
[00:05:31.870] – Angie
Yeah, this idea really goes beyond the concept of, well, just be yourself, as maybe a foundational definition for authenticity, and even goes deeper beyond the performative actions of posting signs that say everyone belongs here, but not really having spaces and systems that honor that. So we want to go deeper than the surface level of what authenticity may or may not mean to people. And in the meant for more classroom, we really define this in a number of ways. Each chapter within the book is structured to invite the reader to first examine their own practices and then prepare their team, perhaps, to get ready, and then the students to get ready and it closes with the infrastructure pieces that might be required to navigate this meant for more element and to pursue one next step forward in this work. And so when it comes to authenticity, the reason that I choose to start with self and the reason that this element was specifically chosen for the first one for my reader to explore is because everything else is fundamental to us being able to own our own identity. When we’re comfortable with ourselves and who we are and what we offer, we are less afraid of who someone else might be and how they choose to show up in a space.
[00:07:09.050] – Angie
And the reason that’s important is because it allows us to then be intentionally inclusive. So once you’ve taken care of you, then you understand that intentional inclusivity is truly an opportunity to model that authenticity, to model that respect, and even to express dignity for other people.
[00:07:31.610] – Steve
Sounding to me like that walks right into the second one. I’m building a plan here. It’s the second one of fostering connections.
[00:07:42.930] – Angie
Yes. So this second second piece of fostering connection really intends to help the reader honor and validate people’s lived experiences, and also validate their responses to their circumstances that they might be in. So again, just like the previous chapter, we’re moving past and we’re moving deeper through the performative actions to know about someone rather than just know of someone. And so when we can, again, start with ourselves and empower ourselves to be in a position where our classrooms and schools and districts are truly fostering connection, there’s three key elements here that we consider. The first is really prioritizing advertising students over the content. And so the COVID-19 pandemic, for example, grossly underestimated the impact of missing connections and relationships for our students and our adults, for that matter. And so we really know now more than ever how we are meant to be in relation with each other. So the performative action might be that we begin the year with great opportunities to build community and connection and foster relationships. But the encouragement in the chapter is to continue to keep nurturing those relationships all year long and to keep monitoring and reflecting on our own practices as adults to make sure that those spaces are clear in the classroom.
[00:09:14.950] – Angie
The second component of this chapter is really for us as educators to create this investment in who our learners are as people, not just as students. And so as an example, even when we give feedback to learners, or when we connect with folks, so often we might give people feedback in an attempt to connect with them that says, “oh, good job” or “nice work.” Actually, this just reminds me of a quick parenting story – but I was playing tennis with my daughter a couple of weeks ago, and she humbled me in the ways that teenagers are often capable of. But we were volleying back and forth, and I was really proud of how she was getting the ball back, and she’s really leveraging some power. Anyway, to make a long story endless here, she was volleying and I kept saying, “Nice. Oh, that’s great. Good work.” And she finally stopped midpoint and said, “Mom, what is nice about what I’m doing?” She knew it was good. So then I had to go in and say, “oh, well, I really like how you are getting set. You’re keeping balance. You’ve got your racket face open. And I can’t always see the volley coming, but I know it’s going to be a good one based on how I hear that sound off the racket.”
[00:10:45.610] – Angie
And so, again, she just provided me with this humbling experience.
[00:10:51.120] – Steve
She gave you some great coaching.
[00:10:53.250] – Angie
And she sure did. But I think about that story in this because I also think that we foster connection by being true with kids. The use of the phrase, “real talk” in the subtitle of my book was quite intentional. We have to be open and honest and direct, and we can be kind and compassionate as we do so. But we also just want to be clear about what are we doing, what are we saying? What are we looking for that really helps to foster this environment where a connection can be made? And then we can continue to go deeper with that feedback that feeds the work forward. Because sometimes kids, just the third piece here that I want to honor in this chapter is really just that kids, we need to hear what students have to share. Sometimes they just need someone to talk at rather than talk to. And so I think it’s just reflective for us to notice which learner do we have a connection with. To which kids are we giving nicknames and joking around with, and for which other kids maybe have we not yet made that connection? What percentage of our time are we spending with which type of learner?
[00:12:08.180] – Angie
And I think those are just really important questions to ask ourselves and to create these nurturing and inclusive environments.
[00:12:14.610] – Steve
Well, take us to the third one, cultivating curiosity.
[00:12:18.170] – Angie
Sure. Absolutely. This opportunity to cultivate curiosity in the classroom comes from being able to honor and dignify student inquiry through that connection and that relevance that we’ve spoken about previously. When we create connection to content and we inspire curiosity, it’s just a natural, but it’s also a respectful and sustainable way to heighten learner engagement as well as promote academic growth and achievement with kids. So when we’re modeling the generation of new ideas, when we’re modeling risk-taking, when we’re asking kids to consider how to solve problems in a more creative way, this is the real opportunity to nurture inquiry and really overcome this antiquated way, and perhaps even unlearn this idea of teaching that school is the place where the teacher tells and the kids listen. And I know that we’ve had some research over the last few decades, and we’ve had great models models in our schools and of maybe pockets of excellence in our schools where certain teachers are pursuing this idea of curiosity, but we also know that when it comes to the skills that kids need in our community and even the global community. There was some research I discovered in my manuscript or in preparing to write the manuscript that the World Economic Forum publishes their list of skills that will best contribute to a global community.
[00:14:03.220] – Angie
And they’ve had to publish it every two years since 2016 because of the nature of how quickly adaptability and flexibility and innovation and creativity are becoming just absolutely essential competencies for our learners. So this idea of curiosity really wants to honor that. And it couples with the meant for more classroom idea because we want to create spaces where kids feel safe to make mistakes, and they don’t fear failure.
[00:14:33.820] – Steve
I’m sensing the teachers’ need to cultivate one’s own curiosity is a critical component.
[00:14:43.140] – Angie
You are absolutely right with that piece. Instead of even, what are our own passions? What are our own interests? As educators, we are relentless in pursuit of student performance and student growth. And sometimes that comes at the cost of nurturing our own curiosities, our own passions, our own hobbies. What do we like to do in our time outside of the classroom? And how do those inquiries and those curiosities create more inclusive, authentic spaces in the classroom?
[00:15:25.190] – Steve
How about the next one, empowering voice?
[00:15:30.160] – Angie
Sure. The empowering voice chapter really is focused on intentionally developing skills in which kids and adults learn to use their voice for both advocacy and to represent meaningful change. So we want kids to be both equally aware of their voice and how to use it, as well as being being given moments in which to do so. So it’s one thing in the classroom to teach here’s how to advocate, here’s how to be a change agent, here’s how to communicate your needs. But we also want to be reflective to consider how often kids actually have an opportunity to do so or when they do, let us know what their needs are or advocate for change. If we stifle their voice because the system isn’t designed to accept it, we get in this space of real dissonance intentions. So by design, the meant for more classroom ensures kids see themselves in the learning environment and the activities we empower voice by partnering with students to construct or co-construct, rather, those learning experiences. And we also create spaces where we can foster trust and normalized risk-taking so that we really, truly can that are ways to notice the power dynamics in our classrooms, create opportunities to invite kids to be partners with us, and even when it comes to decision making, to make sure that kids understand what decision should I make as the teacher?
[00:17:15.630] – Angie
What decision should you make as the student? What decisions perhaps could we make together to create this necessary space where we feel like our voices matter?
[00:17:25.880] – Steve
So that is all going to be supported then by the next chapter, Nurturing Resilience.
[00:17:31.470] – Angie
It’s almost like there was a plan…[laughter]
[00:17:34.270] – Steve
Yeah, really. [laughter]
[00:17:35.160] – Angie
I appreciate your recognition of that.
[00:17:41.520] – Steve
It’s great to hear you as you lay it out. Somehow I didn’t catch that closely enough earlier, but it really does fall together.
[00:17:50.790] – Angie
Well, this next chapter on nurturing resilience, I could spend a podcast or five talking about, and I will keep it to some high-level pieces here. I think that as fierce and bold and brave of a cohort as we are as teachers and educators, we are continuing to experience spaces where we’re asked to do more with less, and we have to really consider how our current feelings and emotions about our work are connected to the infrastructure in which we’re engaging. So there’s really two sides this coin. There’s many sides to the coin, let’s be fair, but two sides to consider today. One side of the coin is this exhaustion and just complete burnout that members of our profession are feeling, and it’s happening so fast that we can’t catch up because you may feel this way, and you may not know why. So my inquiry here to teachers that I work with and principals and leaders alike is, if we’re feeling this way, to what degree do we have competing priorities on our campus? To what degree do we have limited collaboration and professional learning experiences to grow our skill sets and mindsets? To what degree do we have inconsistent or untimely communication about initiatives or practices or decisions that are coming up?
[00:19:22.850] – Angie
And then is there an inequity in the distribution of resources? And is it a combination of those things that are contributing to this exhaustion and this burnout? And then on the other side of the coin, we have teachers who feel fully empowered, and they feel trusted, and they feel like they’re valued members of their school community. And oftentimes, the patterns in the research indicate that’s because, well, there’s dedicated time to develop relationships. There’s a direct and timely and honest communication that also includes feedback and celebration as a regular part of how we’re engaging in our work. And decisions are made that keep kids at the center and truly your focus on the mission. But I think perhaps the most interesting question and perhaps even the most fervent writing moment for me in this chapter was the realization of this, is that we really have to ask ourselves, why should I or my students be asked by the system to work more and to fight harder against said acts when the system unrealistically demand so much of me in the first place? And that is just the real talk that we have to consider as we continue to revitalize and rejuvenate the dignity of our profession.
[00:20:48.550] – Steve
So to close this out then – Giving Grace.
[00:20:52.130] – Angie
Yes. Just as authenticity was the first chapter and had to be the first chapter, Giving Grace had to be the last chapter. After we stirred some things up in Chapter 6 with nurturing resilience and thinking about how to do that for both adults and kids, I wanted to leave the reader with this idea of how we connect the ideas of forgiveness and acceptance with grace. So when we think about this, I mean, I’m a human being, you’re a human being, which means that we will make mistakes. We will we’ll say things we don’t mean, we will forget something important. We’ll hurt someone’s feelings, and we’re just not going to win at all of the things, even most of the time. So how do we reset our minds and recalibrate our experiences to really get into this cadence of speaking to ourselves with kindness, giving ourselves permission to be who we making sure that we give ourselves the same grace that we so freely give to others, and perhaps most importantly, to set time for ourselves on the calendar. I have Post-it notes by my bed to free my mind of things that come up at 3:00 in the morning.
[00:22:18.910] – Angie
I give myself self-care Saturdays when I can. I’m up early to chase a sunrise on a hike or something. But I think the grace part really comes from the idea that there’s only one of me and there’s only one of you. So we have to be kind to that person because we’re truly meant for more.
[00:22:42.480] – Steve
Well, I’m going to go back to the quote I pulled from your book about it’s someplace that I want to be in the future that I’m not now. So if I were a teacher looking through your six items that you just went over with us, and I decided there was an area that I wanted to move ahead with, how would I go about starting?
[00:23:05.380] – Angie
Well, I think the most important part of this work is to start with yourself and start with your strengths. So often we are asked to respond to the things that we’re not doing very well or that we might need to learn more about. But if we haven’t first acknowledged what we’re already good at, where we’re already feeling competent and confident, where we already are demonstrating that resilience, if we don’t first honor those things, then we lose sight of the foundation that we can stand on. So when we do hit a step back, when we inevitably have to take a step backward, we come back to this foundation that we’ve explored ourselves and that we embrace those strengths, we identify those strengths, we nurture those strengths so that then we can take one step forward, whatever that might be. So the suggestion to teachers really is start with yourself and start with your strengths. And then once you notice those things and you normalize speaking to yourself with kindness about what’s good and what you do well, then you can keep nurturing that into existence.
[00:24:24.850] – Steve
Well, thank you so much, Angie. And I’m wondering, what’s the best way that listeners could find out more about your book and the various projects that you’ve got ongoing?
[00:24:38.290] – Angie
Sure. Well, the book is accessible through the SolutionTree website. You can also find it on Barnes & Noble and Amazon. Again, the title of the book is “Meant for More: Real Talk About Classrooms Built on Dignity, Authenticity, and Connection.” You can find me on Instagram @meantformorementum, and also on LinkedIn. It would be a great way to connect with me. Just send me a message. I’d love to connect with you, learn what you’re up to, learn what’s working in your system, why it’s working, and how we can keep going from there.
[00:25:17.610] – Steve
Well, thank you so much. We’ll be sure to put some of those links into the end of the podcast to make it easy for folks to find.
[00:25:25.930] – Angie
Great. Thanks so much, Steve.
[00:25:27.750] – Steve
Have a great day.
[00:25:28.950] – Angie
You, too.
[00:25:32.050] – Steve [Outro]
Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear what you’re pondering. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn at Steve Barkley, or send me your questions and find my videos and blogs at barkleypd.com.
