“When leaders consistently show up in classrooms, not to judge, but to learn and support, they help to create schools where continuous improvement is not an initiative but a way of life.” (Dr. Raymond Schmidt)
Dr. Schmidt describes how learning walks can build alignment among a teaching staff and administrative team. He explores elements pre, during, and post learning walk observations that build professional learning as continuous and collective, not a one-time event.
Visit Dr. Schmidt’ LinkedIn here.
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Podcast Transcript:
[00:00:00.340] – Steve [Intro]
Welcome to the Steve Barkley Ponders Out Loud podcast. As instructional coaches and school leaders, you are tasked with guiding continuous teacher growth to create student success. This podcast looks to support you with strategies from experienced guests, as well as my own insights that I’ve gathered over the years. I’m thrilled to have you with us. Thanks for tuning in.
[00:00:29.810] – Steve
Building a Culture of Growth with Learning Walks. Today, I’m pleased to welcome Dr. Raymond Schmidt, an international school leader with experience across the United States, the Middle East, and Latin America as a teacher, instructional coach, advisor to school leaders, and senior administrator. Today, he serves as the head of school at Magen David Academy in Panama. The school serves the Orthodox Jewish community in Panama, aiming to develop lifelong learners with strong curiosity, critical thinking, and independent analysis. Raymond was recently featured on the cover of the February 2026 issue of K-12 Digest, where he authored an article titled “From Presence to Practice: How Learning Walks and Smart Feedback Strengthen Instructional Leadership in K-12 Schools.” In the article, he explores how learning walks, when paired with focused feedback and follow-up, can help school leaders stay connected to classroom practice and support meaningful professional growth for teachers.
[00:01:52.680] – Steve
Raymond, welcome to the podcast.
[00:01:55.100] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Thank you, Steve.
[00:01:56.370] – Steve
I’m always looking forward to exploring leaders’ insights in building support for continuous teacher growth that promotes increased student success. It fits the mantra that I’ve been preaching for a lot of years that teaching needs to be a team sport and a public act. I’m wondering how your various experiences from the different roles that you had in education, how has that led to your current focus on professional learning and your beliefs about learning walks?
[00:02:32.380] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Yeah, that’s a great question, Steve. You know, as I think about that, it really goes back from the very, very beginning of my career, and I wouldn’t be here today without, literally dozens and dozens of other people guiding me along the way. And there’s one particular teacher I remember when I was teaching kindergarten in the early ’90s, and she was very, very helpful. I was very young and she really just took me under her wing. And I remember I would always want to pay her back somehow. I just felt like that she had done so much for me. And she would repeatedly say, one day the shoes will reverse and you will be able to mentor others. And she said, that’s all I really want is to know that when my time is done and everything I’m pouring into you, you know, you do the same for others as you move along your career. And it’s something that has not escaped me and I didn’t take lightly and I’ve taken into all the roles that I’ve served in. And then of course, as my career continued and I gained more experience and more education and worked with more colleagues and served in different roles, each one of those was really ordained in perfect stair-stepping order to provide me with more tools, more strategies, more humility, and the ability to work with adults as effectively as I was able to work with students.
[00:03:58.170] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
And I think also is, I try not to ever lose sight of what it means and to be a teacher, both the struggles and the victories and the challenges and all of it that comes with being a teacher. Because when you are out of the classroom for many years, and I have been out of the classroom for a while, it’s easy to forget what it’s like to be a teacher and all that that encompasses. And it’s something I really try to remind myself often of what it’s like to be a teacher. And what helps with that is to be in the classrooms frequently. It’s so easy to be tied to your office, but when you make a concerted effort to be in the classrooms, it’s much easier to really have a pulse on and a remembrance of what being a teacher is. So I think although all of the roles have prepared me for where I am today with providing effective and efficient learning walks, it really started in the very beginning with that initial teacher that reminded me, when your time comes, make sure that you’re there for others and helping to nurture them.
[00:05:00.510] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
And that was really a profound impact on me.
[00:05:04.120] – Steve
Well, how about walking us through how— it almost sounds funny— walking us through learning walks. [laughter] Can you walk us through how you have implemented learning walks in this school? Now you’ve only been there—
[00:05:17.810] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
This is my first year.
[00:05:19.430] – Steve
First year, okay.
[00:05:20.470] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
But I’ve been in Central America for almost 10 years now, so different schools in Central America.
[00:05:25.680] – Steve
So learning walks in place when you to the school or is it something you’ve implemented?
[00:05:30.540] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Yeah, I would say somewhat. Not as structured as I would like and not as consistent and not as aligned. So if there’s 3 components that I brought to the learning walks at this particular campus is that it is now much, much more structured, more aligned, much more intentional. And I really don’t give myself credit for that. Those are people that have helped me along the way. Not only that person that helped me when I was a teacher, but other administrators that I’ve worked with in other school settings. And each one of those experiences is helping to be able to then bring it to situations like this. And so here, right away, it was fairly evident to me that I needed to align the three sections. There’s an early childhood section, a primary section, and a secondary school section, and that we were all calibrated to be looking for the same types of things, providing very similar structured SMART feedback to the teachers and making sure that our learning walks were not – these particular learning walks were not evaluative in nature. Sure, they provided us with information and understanding, but it was really about providing support for the teachers to improve instruction, to improve learning outcomes, and to simultaneously build relationships and trust with the teachers.
[00:06:55.170] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
And it takes time at first, it can be suspicious, the new person coming in and observing me, but the more frequently you go in and the more frequently they see that you’re there really just providing support, recognizing all of the things that they are doing well, I don’t think they hear that enough, then that trust and those relationships build so that you can provide more effective feedback that will have direct impacts on improving instruction and learning.
[00:07:23.450] – Steve
So you use the word aligned. Talk a little bit more about that.
[00:07:29.200] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Right. So in my particular case, we even have two different campuses where our early childhood pre-K through kinder is a separate campus and a fair distance away, 20 minutes away. It’s not a walking distance type of situation. So right there, that, as you can imagine, that creates a situation of almost like two schools, but not really. And then our primary and secondary, even though it’s on the same campus, there’s a big physical gap. And that can sometimes make it feel like it’s 3 different schools all under one name or 3 different ships with 3 different captains running it in different ways. And it’s something that when I first arrived here, I asked to read the Cognia report or accreditation report, and they had noticed that as well, that although there was some common practices, it did seem more like 3 schools rather than 1. So to help align some of those things, I have scheduled weekly learning walks that I do with each of the principals. So the principal, myself, will go in and do 3 or 4 learning walks in a day, and then they do them on their own. But the calibration piece comes from the 4 of us meeting together without observing and having conversations.
[00:08:41.660] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Them meeting with their teachers, and then myself and the principals doing the learning walks together so that we are following through with what we’re saying as far as what we’re looking for, expectations, the type of feedback. And this was also solicited from the teachers. What is it that they want from us to look for? What kind of support are they seeking? How do they want to receive their feedback? And it’s all very, very much connected to our school goals as well. So it was very intentional. Very concerted. It took, I would say, about 6 weeks to get it to where it’s established and functioning and has been ever since then.
[00:09:20.180] – Steve
There’s a question I use when I’m coaching teachers in a pre-conference. And my question is, if I could walk around the room during the lesson and put my finger on kids’ heads and I was able to hear what’s going on inside their heads, what is it you want to have going on inside their heads? So I’m going to modify that question now for you. As you’re observing in classrooms If I had the chance to listen into the conversation in your head, could you talk about the conversation I’d be hearing?
[00:09:50.720] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting because when you talk about learning walks, a lot of times it automatically feels like, okay, you’re there observing the teacher. And yes, that is happening. But inside my head, I am constantly reminding myself to really be observing the students. And really pay attention to the students and what their participation is and what is their activity, what is their engagement, what is their level of excitement and enthusiasm, what kind of connections are they making or not making, what kind of answers are they offering, is it surface, is it critical thinking type of answers? Now that is obviously very connected to what the teacher is doing to help guide and facilitate But inside my head, I literally think if I’m paying too much close attention to what the teacher is doing, I am reminding myself, you know, sweep the room and look at the students and pay attention to the level of engagement and activity and participation. And then that will then lead to my next thought is I wonder what that child is thinking. Maybe they’re quiet, maybe they are attentive, but I wonder what they’re thinking. And so what I will do on many occasions is without being disruptive, I’ll find an organic opportunity to move and go inquire from that student.
[00:11:11.840] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Tell me what you’re thinking, or what is the purpose of this lesson, and what are you learning from this instruction? And so that gives me an opportunity to either confirm or really just solicit what it is that they’re thinking. So in summary, I’m reminding myself to to pay very close attention to the students, even more so than the teacher. I think that informs a lot about the teacher when you’re really paying attention to the students. And then at times, quite frequently, inquiring from the students exactly what it is that they’re thinking. Some of them, you know, because they’re very verbal, you know, they’re very, I don’t know, charismatic. You know what they’re thinking, you know what they’re doing, it’s evident. But some not so much. And so that strikes curiosity in me.
[00:11:56.740] – Steve
Yeah, I’m pretty sure it was a John Hattie piece that I had read that about 80% of what’s happening in the classroom with students isn’t observed by the teacher, which had always pressed me as to why any kind of coaching that puts another person in the classroom who gets to watch and pay attention to what you, the teacher, don’t have the opportunity to pay attention to becomes so important.
[00:12:30.890] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Yeah, I would agree. And, you know, it’s interesting because when I was teaching, I think it was when I was getting my master’s degree, one of the assignments was to videotape yourself. You didn’t have to share it with anybody. You didn’t have to submit it. Had nothing to do that. That wasn’t the purpose. It was really to give you a perspective that you likely didn’t have. And even though you think, oh, you know, I know what I’m doing, I know what I’m seeing, I know what I’m aware of, it’s humbling and affirming and interesting when you do actually videotape yourself, if you’re willing to have an objective view and watch yourself and also watch the students and you do begin to realize, wow, actually I’m not as aware as I think I am, just kind of an oxymoron. But at the same time, it’s good to have that information. It’s good to know that. And I think it really heightens your senses. It humbles you. And I think if you do it on a semi-systematic basis, it can provide you with information about particular students that you would not have any other way.
[00:13:44.030] – Steve
Yeah. So let’s talk about what happens after the observation then. What’s the process you’re using for feedback to the teacher?
[00:13:52.940] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Sure. So we’ll go into a handful of classrooms, like I said, 3 or 4 together, myself with the principal, and then we’ll go back somewhere and sit down and talk about the observations. The beauty of doing it with more than one person is oftentimes I would say it’s probably about 50/50. Half of what you talk about, you both saw the same thing. And then there’s another half where they’re saying something, I was like, okay, I didn’t see that at all, right? And vice versa. Or I talked to this student, this is what they said, and I talked to this student. And so it is nice to have that different information. It’s also nice to be doing it with the principal because they oftentimes have background information about what your students – the teacher that you might not have, and that might explain something you observe. And it really is very professional dialog like that. It’s not to condemn or criticize. It’s to identify what is working well, what is successful, how might even what is working well and successful be enhanced. So it’s not just, well, what isn’t working that we need to find.
[00:14:59.390] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Sometimes it’s just a minor tweak that might even make it better. Sometimes it’s not even necessarily make it better. It’s just something to consider. Have you considered it, you know, delivering instruction from this approach, small group and think-pair-share versus whole group, whatever the case may be. So we have those conversations all tied to the school goals and our curriculum because those are also very much connected. And then we have a very systematic feedback that the principal will then share with the teacher. I’m included on it because I’m part of the observation as well. And then I would say, about 75% of the time, the teacher will then respond with more dialog. “Oh, thank you very much for sharing that. This is the first time I tried this lesson, or thank you very much. Oh, I didn’t really realize that.” So it just, it begins some of that dialog, which then may continue via email, but oftentimes can continue as, “hey, can I set up a meeting and come talk with you about that?” So all of that ties into building the relationships as well. That trust is continuing to grow and grow and grow.
[00:15:58.500] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
And then, you know, on occasion, as any school would experience, if there’s an observation that is concerning more than normal, or maybe a repeated observation that starts to become concerning, then those are typically a requested in-person meeting. That’s not something we’re going to share over an email. The email might identify some of the things that are positive that were happening. And hey, when you get a chance, I’d love to talk to you about this part of the lesson. And then the principal has a private conversation from there. And then when we start getting into second and third and fourth rounds of teachers, because we keep all of this information, it gives us the opportunity to follow up and then really praise them for something that maybe was suggested in a previous learning walk and now we’re seeing in some later on. So for example, maybe a recommendation was to make sure that students have peer collaboration opportunities. I’d say that’s a big one that, we provide feedback with more peer-to-peer collaboration. And then when we’re going in the second, third, fourth time and we start seeing peer collaboration, we want them to know that we notice.
[00:17:06.920] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
We notice that you received the feedback. We notice that you took it into consideration and began implementing it, and well done, it was implemented effectively, so that, you know, they feel some some validation and affirmation for receiving the feedback in a professional and willing manner.
[00:17:24.900] – Steve
What would you say are some of the most important things you do that helps the teacher move from just kind of hearing the feedback to being reflective and considering how they continually move their skill set ahead to ever greater impact?
[00:17:50.250] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Right. And it would really segue with kind of the end part of the question I just answered. And that is, I think it begins with the teachers that are willing to be collaborative, whether it is just emails back and forth or in person, because that means that they are receiving it from the perspective of supportive versus evaluative. And then when we see some of those practices being implemented or what sometimes happens as well is teachers saying, okay, great, I would really like to implement more anchor charts in my classroom, but I ran out of butcher paper or I ran out of chart paper. If you can help me out with that, I will. Oh, great, right? Okay, that’s a very tangible, practical thing. And that’s then on us as leaders. Those kinds of things happen as well. And they’re not saying it at all like, yeah, okay, well, if you give me this and I’ll— no, it’s not. But maybe we weren’t aware. Oh, okay, that’s a problem we can solve easily. And then it is, I wouldn’t say a red flag, but an indicator if you’re providing feedback to teachers and you never hear back from them.
[00:19:01.720] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
That might prompt, you know, just a popping in the classroom, “how are things going? I really enjoyed visiting your class last week. Are all things going well? Do you have any questions?” And just again, trying to really nurture that relationship. ‘Cause I do feel that there is a pattern that when there is a relationship and teachers trust and respect leaders, administrators, coaches, and they’re willing to work as a team and as a partner, there’s no limits because then everybody is on the same page with the same goal of supporting students, which is really the core of what we’re supposed to be doing. It’s not about me, the teacher. It’s not about me, the head of school, or me, the principal, or me, the coach. It’s not about us as the adults. It’s really about what’s best for students. And nobody with any particular title is any better or superior in any way. What is better and superior is when everybody is working together for that same common goal. And so that’s really how I know that it’s working and effective. And when there’s not as much collaboration, that’s where I realize, okay, that’s someone that we need to try to make an extra effort to pull into the fold.
[00:20:11.270] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
And sometimes that’s slow and that’s okay. Sometimes it’s not as easy and natural for everybody and that’s fine. And sometimes it does require, no different than students, some sort of individual differentiated approach that’s going to work with that particular teacher. And sometimes maybe it doesn’t work from the principal, maybe it works from the instructional coach, or maybe vice versa. Maybe there’s a relational thing that works better with one person than the other. Again, that’s where everyone has to put their pride aside. It doesn’t matter who it is as long as somebody is working collaboratively, again, in the interest of the students.
[00:20:48.230] – Steve
So Raymond, if a principal or coach is listening into our conversation here and they reflect back on some of the recent classroom visits that they took part in, whether it’s a learning walk or a different observation tool, what questions might they be asking themselves to help determine whether or not what they’re doing is actually supporting teacher learning?
[00:21:19.520] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Well, I guess my answer to that would be is the student learning? Are the students learning? Are the students absorbing? Are the students retaining? Are the students engaged and active and participating? Are the students thinking critically and collaboratively? To me, if that’s happening, and it can always be improved and enhanced, and you can get the teacher to continue to grow and improve and enhance the student learning, well then, then you are effective with, with the teacher learning as well. And I’m not shy at all when I’m collaborating with principals and teachers to absolutely acknowledge when they teach me something as well. When I go in and observe a strategy and approach, a lesson that I have never seen before, that I am not aware of, or I have not seen implemented as effectively, I have no problem acknowledging, wow, that was amazing. I wish I used that tool when I was a teacher. I’ve never seen that implemented in that way and it was very effective. That to me then makes it more of a collaborative process. But I think it really always goes back to the students. What are the student learning outcomes and how engaged are the students?
[00:22:35.460] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
We can use data as well. We can talk about pre and post MAP assessments and other AP assessments, other benchmark assessments. Are students learning? Are students meeting projected growth? That can sometimes tie in with those in-person conversations with teachers as well. So it really all goes back to the student level of engagement, participation, critical thinking, and collaboration. And if teachers are able to improve those things, then I feel like they themselves are also improving as educators.
[00:23:08.400] – Steve
So watching for a change in – I use the phrase, student learning production behaviors.
[00:23:15.300] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Correct.
[00:23:16.020] – Steve
It’s what the student does that causes the learning to happen. So if I come back and see a change in what kids are doing, that’s likely to get me down the road where I want to be.
[00:23:29.010] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Yeah, and I think it’s very easy to see too, when you have those students that are maybe challenging behavior students, not always, but oftentimes that challenging behavior is due to some sort of lack of engagement in the learning. And that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily anybody’s fault or somebody is doing something wrong or negligent, particularly the teacher. It doesn’t necessarily mean that. It may, but it doesn’t necessarily. Some students just are a little bit more challenging to get engaged. But when you as a team can identify what might engage that student different from the others and the teacher recognizes, okay, yeah, actually that will be successful and is willing to implement it, I mean, that’s a win for everybody. That’s a win for the teacher. That’s a win for the student. It’s a win for the student’s peers. And that’s something that’s also very tangible, very palpable to observe and something I really do like to praise teachers for. You know, so-and-so was really struggling the first couple of times I’ve come in and now they’re like at the board modeling for you. What are you doing? Or, oh, did you, did you implement that practice?
[00:24:37.510] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
What is different?
[00:24:39.680] – Steve
Fair to say that as head of school, doing the learning walks with your principals, you’re also engaged in increasing the principals’ learning as well as your own.
[00:24:53.640] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Yeah, I hope so. My focus this year is really alignment – that we’re all on the same page, that we’re implementing the same expectations, same type of feedback, practices with really many, many aspects of the school and I think it’s happening. I mean, the principals are commenting on it. Even in some of our meetings, we have an academic committee meeting. Some of the principals are commenting on how those things have improved systematically across the school. We’re also going through our Cognia mid-cycle review right now, which works out very well because for a lack of better words, it’s forcing us to do some of these things that we should be doing anyways, but it gives us the excuse of, okay, well, we have no choice, so we need to do this. In my mind, I’m thinking, well, these are good practices. So that part makes it a little bit easier. But yes, I would, I would say so. But you know what, Steve? I wouldn’t say that they’re learning any more from this process than I am as well. Every school you go to, every person that you work with that’s new and different, everybody brings different experiences.
[00:25:55.080] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
And if you’re open, again, it doesn’t matter what your title is or what role you’re serving in a school. If you’re willing, there’s always opportunities to learn new things and grow. So yes, although they’re probably learning from that process. I don’t know that it’s any more than I am as well.
[00:26:11.950] – Steve
So you just flipped my statement. My statement was teaching is a team sport and a public act, and you’ve just flipped it to being a school leader is a team sport and a public act.
[00:26:30.830] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
I think so. I’m a big believer in and the servanthood leadership approach. And when you, at least from my perspective, when you take that kind of approach, there’s a level of humility and a level of we’re all in this together, shoulder to shoulder, not vertically but horizontally. And I think when we have that kind of approach, everybody benefits from that. Everybody is learning from each other. And as long as the center is always the student learning and outcomes, what’s best for the students, as long as that always remains remains the core of every goal, then I think you’re doing the right thing and you’re headed in the right direction.
[00:27:13.000] – Steve
So let me give you a little stretch piece here. You described pretty well for me what I’d see if I showed up at your school tomorrow and got to join you on learning walks. You got a picture of 5 years down the road? You get to see the culture that the start of your learning walks is building, what would you hope noticeable 4 or 5 years down the road?
[00:27:42.750] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
I would hope noticeable that there’s an increase in student engagement for all students. Even if it’s a very high percentage right now of students being engaged, I really would like it to, and I know this might seem unrealistic, but 100% of our students are engaged in the learning process. Because when you have that in place, when, when that is strong and prevalent across all of the classrooms, then you really decrease the number of behavior challenges that you face, which just really makes the whole school system so much more enjoyable and such a pleasant culture to be working in. The other piece is really systematic and aligned, that all of our teachers are using the same kinds of language and I don’t mean English versus Spanish, but the same kind of instructional language and behavior expectations and approaches and strategies, whether we’re in the hallways, whether we’re in the classrooms, whether you’re in science class, whether you’re in high school or preschool, we all are really implementing aligned systematic practices, which I do think makes it much easier for the students so that they know that no matter whose classroom they’re in, the expectations are going to be the same.
[00:28:57.000] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
The accountability is going to be the same. The level of engagement is gonna be the same. It doesn’t mean every teacher will have the same personality. We’re not robots. It doesn’t mean everyone will have the same kind of approach and enthusiasm and charisma, whatever the case may be. We are going to be unique, but some of those systematic practices, again, the language, expectations, those should be the same. So that we truly are one school no matter what the grade level is, no matter what building you’re in. I think not just students, not just children, I think overall in general, people, human beings in general function better, more efficiently when there’s systems in place, when there’s, you know what the expectations are and they should be high at all times and you know what the accountability piece is and you remove any sort of ambiguity and things are very transparent and clear. It doesn’t mean everything will be perfect. but it sure makes it a whole lot easier when that kind of structure is in place. Not just easier, but more, more effective, more efficient, more successful.
[00:30:03.660] – Steve
Do you see teachers entering into the learning walks? In other words, teachers being part of observing in other teachers’ classrooms as part of the learning walks down the road?
[00:30:14.420] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Yeah, I do. Down the road. Right now there’s some of that in a more informal and structured way. We provide opportunities for teachers to go observe each other. But really for their own benefit, their own dialog, their own conversation. But yes, I think that’s something I could absolutely see later down the road. Yeah. And it probably would begin with conversations with the teachers, say, “hey, I’m thinking about this. I’m not exactly sure, even if I have something in mind, I’m not exactly sure how we would go about doing this or implementing it. So I wanna hear your thoughts. How many of you would be interested? How would you like to see that happen? What kind of rotation?” So they really have a lot of thought and input to that practice because when you solicit from them, there’s a lot more willingness and buy-in versus, you know, sending out a memo that says, okay, starting next week, this is what we’re going to be doing and here’s your rotation schedule.
[00:31:06.260] – Steve
Well, Raymond, thanks a lot. I was looking forward to this conversation. I will post the link to your article in the podcast lead-in, so make it easy for people to find and that they can follow up with a read on that. If listeners would like to connect with you with questions they have or respond after reading the article, what’s the best way for them to touch base with you?
[00:31:33.530] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Probably the easiest, best way is on LinkedIn. You can just search my name, Dr. Raymond J., the letter J., Schmidt. I’m quite active there and my contact information is there. So LinkedIn would probably be the best stop.
[00:31:44.840] – Steve
Terrific. That’s what we’ll do. Thank you so much.
[00:31:47.790] – Dr. Raymond Schmidt
Yeah, thank you, Steve. This was wonderful. And Thank you for inviting me.
[00:31:53.580] – Steve [Outro]
Thanks for listening, folks. I’d love to hear what you’re pondering. You can find me on Twitter or LinkedIn at Steve Barkley, or send me your questions and find my videos and blogs at barkleypd.com.
